[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Welcome to Disability Empowerment now season four. I'm your host, Keith Murphy De Gincini. Today I'm talking to Leo Ricketts, who is a autistic therapist and co host of the Artistic License podcast. Leo, welcome to the show.
[00:00:40] Speaker B: I'm very happy to be here. Thanks ever so much for giving me some time on your program.
[00:00:46] Speaker A: No problem, my friend. So tell me about the Artistic License and how you, you and your co host came up with that name and that idea.
[00:01:03] Speaker B: Okay, sure. So my co host is Shauna. I'm in London in England. She's in Carrick Fergus in Northern Ireland. So we're both within the United Kingdom, but some hundreds of miles apart. And we actually ever met in person? Yes, we have, but it wasn't for a long time. I could come to that, actually. Yeah, it wasn't for quite a while.
We met online because we both were members are members of a Facebook group called Autistic Counselors and Psychotherapists, which was largely a British thing originally. And most of the members were from the UK when we joined a couple of years ago, maybe three years ago now. It's really international. There are many, many members all the world.
[00:01:55] Speaker A: And so it's that a big community because I would have no idea. I mean, I'm glad that it is a thriving community, but it's like unless, you know, are involved in the community, you have no idea and so talk about that.
[00:02:28] Speaker B: Okay, sure, sure. I wouldn't have known either.
So just to backtrack a little bit about my own identity, so I, I'm late diagnosed as many of the people in that community are. I was, I got my official shiny piece of paper kind of just over two, two and a half years ago. I'm 58. So I was in my, you know, congratulations. Thank you, thank you.
And it was, I, I, one of my autistic clients actually did. They got me a gift and, and said congratulations. And that is exactly the right reaction. It's something that I kind of suspected for some, a few years.
I'd always felt closer, more aligned to autistic people all my, certainly my adult life. But I would count myself out, discount all the things. And a lot of people I know do this, you know, I can make eye contact, I can sustain, make and sustain relationships and all of those things that autistic people can't do. So I would rule myself out, you know, of taking that seriously.
And eventually I didn't. And it was through the work that I do with more and more neurodivergent people I thought, no, this. Definitely these, these are my people.
[00:03:57] Speaker A: So late late diagnostics are becoming more and more common to make that assumption. That's good because I have mild cerebral palsy. If you don't get it at birth by age three, you don't have it. There's no late dia. No at all.
But it's. I've known late dinosaur Ted Sticks who I've been fortunate enough to walk through their journey a little bit with them or hear their story. And it's like having their second birthday of it's. And it's something that I cannot imagine because all I was was from three months premature. So if you.
[00:05:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Yes.
[00:05:27] Speaker A: To do the second birthday I had two. One where I enter the world and one if I watch Bomb Bold Tom. But that's totally a head fantasy. Late autistic is not a head fantasy. It's a real thing. Like you said you always expected for a few years. And I'm like, okay, I think he means 30 years to be proceeds. They are good.
And I'm not trying to imprint myself on your story at all. But it's like. And hopefully you talk about this growing up always knowing or suspecting but couldn't really figure it out to where you almost live. Like double lives.
[00:06:52] Speaker B: Totally away.
Totally.
[00:06:55] Speaker A: And that sounds cool in one area.
Also mad name in another area because it's like you're two people but not really you're the same person. But it's like, wow, that's a long tangent. But it's like I just had so much appreciation for that.
Not living it, but wonderful hearing about it from other late diagnosed artistics and trying to wrap my brain around the emotional and intellectual complexity of trying to do five tightrope acts every damn day of your life until you get that diagnosis. And it's like a light bulb goes off in your head, but not your head, everyone else around you because you've already known that.
That's it. Thank you.
Like, wow. Joe. Yeah.
[00:08:31] Speaker B: Thank you, thank you, thank you.
That's brilliant. That's, that's, that's. That resonates so well.
And in a way, what you said, a double life. It's kind of true when you know. But for a long time you're living a double life you don't know about because you're masking and depending on how well you're naturally able to do that because it's a subconscious process in the first place.
You know, depends on how, how visible that is. And it was completely invisible for me.
You know, my support needs as it's now kind of classified are relatively low.
I was clearly bright at school, but I couldn't do produce any of the work. I mean then we can also add the ADHD in there too as well because they, they're part of. That's part of the same battle.
But what I find because I work kind of exclusively now with neurodivergent people, mostly autistic, not all, but there are commonalities. There are things that everybody says when they go through this journey and the most common one is, you know, something like now everything makes sense. You reframe everything that went before and you see as you beautifully put it, the double life that you led without knowing it.
And of course you take on all that responsibility for all the things that you're not doing right or you're failing at or you know, so to.
So yes. So adult life was kind of knowing that I was. Had all kinds of struggles particularly around work and, and learning and you know, being productive. Changing careers a lot again, ADHD as well. Really doing well with new stuff. So kind of moving from one area of work to another.
And there was, I think it was, I mean, so I became a therapist way before I'd come to the realization or even knowing what neurodivergence was. And by the way, in my training over like five years, no mention of neurodivergence whatsoever. And this is 10 years ago, this is not long ago, this is recent, you know, nothing, nothing.
Make of that what you will. That is changing. I know that that's changing and that's a great thing. And you know, I'm. Luckily I get to be part of that change. I now I'm doing a training this weekend for a therapy service so that they know a little bit more about what it's like to work with autistic people in particular and what the differences are. Anyway, I digress. So I was a therapist for several years masking, not knowing what I was but suspecting. And so eventually I, after kind of a couple of years of being absolutely convinced I'm being self diagnosed, which importantly, it's important to say that's totally valid in terms of my own practice and the wider neurodivergence community. Self diagnosis is just as valid. Doesn't matter if you have the shiny piece of paper or not. People will often have very good reasons for wanting that. As I did. As confirmation.
[00:12:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:07] Speaker B: As self validation. But also unfortunately it being necessary to convince other people as well.
[00:12:15] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I, I was. While I am going to say and I'M not trying to criminalize it at all but did you frame that shining piece of paper the official diagnosis because you waited so long to get it just like you earned your degree. So yeah no not at all kind.
[00:12:56] Speaker B: Oh I know that like that but.
[00:12:59] Speaker A: It'S like I'm in my late bit detail just got a big part of my life unwrapped. I already knew it years ago and now I got the peach paper. Did you get it laminated and framed? Because that's what I would do.
[00:13:28] Speaker B: I didn't the thing is. The thing is it's not a piece of paper. It's a 24 page psychology report.
[00:13:36] Speaker A: Okay yeah kind of hard to free there is that but damn that would. Did you get that leather bound I.
[00:13:49] Speaker B: Want to now oh that's I'm totally gonna do that now you said it I can't not thanks.
[00:13:59] Speaker A: No levity aside but damn I mean that that again Will. Will. Joking making jokes but it we wanted same page but shouldn't be like that of course really should not be and I can make these jokes out of empathy.
[00:14:32] Speaker B: Empathy is exactly what I was gonna say. Yeah.
[00:14:38] Speaker A: I mean my brain is right now doing psychological back flipped trying to put myself which I never really can in your shoes in the shoes of a late diagnosis whatever that diagnosis is because again I was born into this body Cerebral palsy. It's in.
It's whipped me until they put me in a box and put me six feet under. Hopefully not for a long time but it's like there is no light diagnosis of cerebral palsy and there's so many and autism judge related probably of disabilities that people discover later in life. Except autism didn't just tap you on the shoulder or come down the judgeberry didn't drop it under your bellow and then 30 years large forward to 30 years.
None of that.
No it did not happen that way. And so it's George having all the gratitude of your journey of getting your diagnosis I would you God sooner I. I wish everyone got it sooner. Good. Again it's. It's a big part of your life. It shapes yes the way you live the way you see it's like so yeah I mean another wrong tangent but it's like it's a huge huge deadlock of a thing that Ludkin Leeds getting talked about more and more and more that hopefully will lead to change where people are diagnosed more and more sooner than.
[00:17:50] Speaker B: Yeah I'm the thing that. And the thing that you're. You're kind of moving toward there I think. And thank you for all of that again, because you put all of that just so beautifully. Is that all the, you know, we call them accommodations or adjustments or whatever that I might need, that other autistic people might need, and there's obviously a huge range of those would benefit everybody. It's not like it's that the barrier. Isn't that under diagnosis. Helps society out because they don't have to. You know, everything that could be done to make our lives easy will make everybody's lives easier. I think it's generally true. Massive sweeping statement coming, but generally true of disability as a whole. However, you might look at that and, you know, here I am on your show Disability Empowerment. Now, this is a difficult word if you have an invisible or a hidden disability. It's a really hard word. There is all kinds of stuff and I've struggled. I've only been able to lean into it myself in the last. Well, since the new year, actually.
You know, and that is in terms of wearing the sunflower lanyard when I travel, marking myself out, feeling I don't deserve that.
[00:19:15] Speaker A: You know, explain the sun. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:19:20] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:19:21] Speaker A: To people who don't know.
[00:19:25] Speaker B: Let me grab it as well. So those of us, those people watching on YouTube can have a look as well. If I've got it. Here it is.
[00:19:33] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:19:34] Speaker B: So this is useful for me when I fly. Airport staff are quite good at recognizing these. I mean, your ex, you know, your mileage may vary, but basically these are available and it's not, you know, you don't have to pass any tests or anything. You just get yourself one.
It marks you out as needing some assistance potentially.
And you can put as much information or as little as you want. Mine says I am autistic. Oh, here. And then on the others, there are some symbols that you can choose that say things like I need a certain bit of distance or loud noises are going to bother me or, you know, whatever. Whatever the things are.
I've had generally positive experiences using it so far. Not everybody does. I've heard some horror stories where people actually are marked out in unhelpful ways. But the point is really, one, do I deserve special treatment? I am, you know, the current terminology here is able bodied.
I, you know, mobility isn't a problem, but my, my problems are mostly sensory. So again, invisible. Also, there are, you know, there's psychological stuff that. That has helped me out with, like claustrophobia. You know, being in a crowded queue for airport security is a big problem for me. And to be relieved of that is huge. But the, the point I think I was thinking about just earlier was this shame and guilt thing. I don't deserve special treatment. There are, you know, this old argument that everybody, I think everybody who turns up in therapy at some point says something like there's always someone worse off than me. I don't deserve.
[00:21:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:26] Speaker B: Somebody pointed out to me and I've always reflected this back to people who say something like that. We never say there's always somebody better off than me or happier than me and therefore I don't deserve to be happy. We don't say that. It's always a downward comparison that we make. And of course the logical extension of that argument is there's only ever one person in the world, any one time who's allowed.
[00:21:55] Speaker A: Peter, Tom Cruise, Jamie Foxx.
I could go on and on and on. Are more happier than me at any given point.
That doesn't take away from the fact that I mom my job and generally love and live my life. But yeah, at your point which made there are a lot of people happier, probably more happier than you all alleged on the same length then people who have it harder than you like you can pick out anyone in the third world. And I mean there's a reason why people don't go to bed or shouldn't go to bed thinking, see, I'm glad I have it. Well, better off than anyone in the third world because you don't want to be emotionally and morally bankrupt.
But it's like. And so you either go down or you go up and it. It's like yeah, but that's a very interesting point that we only go down and in the not all when all it's good sense. True as.
[00:24:06] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:24:07] Speaker A: Exactly. I mean it's judge and it makes.
[00:24:11] Speaker B: The point is the comparisons are pointless. In the end of the day, suffering is suffering and Jamie Foxx, Brad Pitt, whoever, probably do have dreadful days, months, whatever.
[00:24:24] Speaker A: You know, there are tons and tons of celebrity therapists who judge.
[00:24:39] Speaker B: Of course.
[00:24:40] Speaker A: See celebrities because they are specialized in understanding that lifestyle that all those creatures and they're all celebrity therapists who just see other celebrity therapists and that's valid.
Valid as any other type of therapy. But let's get way back to the artistic license.
We took a bit of a detour.
Hopefully not too long.
[00:25:35] Speaker B: We love sidebars. Yeah.
[00:25:37] Speaker A: Sidebar upon sidewall upon side ball. None of us are composing a symphony here.
[00:25:48] Speaker B: Thank you.
So yes, I came across the Facebook group that I mentioned earlier for autistic counselors and psychotherapists through another podcast, actually. So the, the woman who set that group up was a guest on a podcast, talked about that group. I heard it, I joined.
Yeah. About three years ago now. And after, you know, there were a few kind of online meetings of small groups of people. And out of that, my now co host, Shauna suggested setting up a little online peer support, sorry, peer supervision, group of therapists. And out of that we came up with the idea that some of the conversations we were having, it would be so good if people could hear them and understand that there is such a thing as an autistic therapist. That's not a contradiction in terms. That's a really good thing that we exist.
[00:26:55] Speaker A: Comedian. I mean you, you talked.
And we'll talk about later.
One of the horrible Mitch conceptions is that artistic people aren't funny. I know that to be downright far. We know that several times in my life in the badge week, kids in the pants wig.
That's proven. But yeah, it's not a contradiction in time.
[00:27:36] Speaker B: That's right. That's right. And that was really, I suppose, the reason, as you were asking right at the beginning about why the, the podcast exists and you asked about the name. It's just, you know, autists love wordplay and puns and just the fact that autistic license sounds a little bit like artistic license, which is phrase. But also, I know Shauna has said on the podcast before that it actually there's, there's a second twist to that, which is that we have license to be autistic. And therefore, although notionally speaking, it's kind of a weekly podcast, we just went a month without releasing anything and it's up to us. We have autistic license to do as we feel on that one. And it has also, I think what the feedback that we've got so far is very much that actually the, the, the, the, the, the theme, if you like, of the podcast is the friendship between Shauna and I and how that is evolving kind of on air in a way as co. Therapists, as co autistic people, and as co hosts of the, of the podcast. And I, I understand that that's not actually surprising because both of us practice as relational therapists. That's part of our training and how we each practice. Even though we practice in completely different modalities.
What we recognize and every bit of research on therapy recognizes is that it's the quality of the relationship between me and my client, people I work with, that's the biggest influencer of outcome More than what kind of therapy you practice, more than how strictly you stick to the kind of therapy you practice. The biggest determiner of outcome is the quality of relationship that exists. And we, I think, kind of demonstrate that out loud. Because the other thing about therapy is nobody ever gets to see you work. Nobody ever gets to see you in therapy. It's a totally closed. It has to be, obviously, because confidentiality is the whole. Safety and confidentiality is paramount. But the downside of that is you don't get to see it. And although we're not doing therapy on each other, we are having a relationship with each other that's very public and a friendship that develops as therapists as well. So there's all kinds of.
[00:30:04] Speaker A: You could do a mock therapy section of each other and make that a entire episode or a entire series of episodes. Not that I'm legit pitching that. I'm sure your co host gonna love that idea, by the way.
[00:30:31] Speaker B: Keith, do not think that that hasn't occurred to us on a number of occasions. There may even be one or two unreleased recordings where that has kind of happened by accident.
And it's just the case of us getting brave enough to edit that into something and put it out. But I. Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you for legitimizing that and kind of validating that. Of course. That would be a great thing to do. And it does. It does happen. You know, it's been dramatized on TV a couple of times.
What was it called with. Oh, God, I've got the box set. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Come back to it. It's been done a number of times. Sometimes really well, sometimes not so well. There are real, filmed, actual therapy sessions. There's. Couples Therapy is a series that's on the BBC right now.
So there is some exposure to it. And there's some podcasts as well, actually, where, with permission, obviously there have been recordings with therapy sessions.
What we're most interested in at this point is just showing that we exist.
[00:31:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:46] Speaker B: And that, you know, you would think that maybe there's a kind of received wisdom that if you're a mental health professional in some form, you have to be in perfect mental health. And of course, nobody is. We know that. But the idea might sound really out there to somebody. How can you. What do you mean? You go and see a therapist who's autistic. They don't have a theory of mind. That's one of the big things that's been challenged.
[00:32:13] Speaker A: Oh, wait, wouldn't Freud or John want they completely Sound mind. When they literally created psychotherapy.
[00:32:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We have the phrase the wounded healer that gets wheeled out a lot.
[00:32:38] Speaker A: You know, it's like. And I mean, if you take away or destroy confidentiality, that's the end of therapy. And then we're all buggered.
Very UK item.
But yeah, it's just like. So, again, getting back to the formation and I mean, you explain the title of the podcast, how you and Johnna met and so how long had the podcast gone on?
[00:33:28] Speaker B: And we're new. We. We recorded for a good six months without releasing anything.
All kinds of. You familiar with pda?
[00:33:37] Speaker A: Wait, you can do that?
[00:33:40] Speaker B: Yes, and it was necessary, it turns out. But we actually launched last November, so it's not quite a old yet. And we.
We've just launched. Yes, two days ago, Season two, which is a kind of a notional arbitrary number thing. It's just that, as I said, we had a break over August through the summer, so starting again. We decided to name it as season two. And we'll be a little bit different this time. We're going to experiment, although we're very nervous about it, about having guests on. As you do, in fact, as you're.
[00:34:18] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, to branch out a bit.
[00:34:23] Speaker B: Please.
[00:34:23] Speaker A: This idea thrives on gsa.
I can talk for two or three hours straight on any given topic. That's not interesting to me. Hearing my own voice and releasing it long form.
It's just not.
No, it's like, maybe I'll do a offshoot once or twice.
[00:35:03] Speaker B: I will subscribe.
[00:35:04] Speaker A: Say I. I did that. But it's like, no, this idea about disability empowerment was always focused on, well, I think I'm gonna need some help with that. AKA a lot of help. And so why don't I just interview other people?
It's like.
So the Jenid said the origin of this show, which only lasts season. Season three started becoming a official video Cats.
Well Agad. But it was always set up as a interview show.
And like, you have background in therapy.
I don't have background in interviewing people. It's George.
And before I did it, I had no interest.
I literally. If someone had said to me in 2018, before I cooked this idea of the following year, oh, yeah, this is what you're going to do with your life. I would be like, what are you on? I. I think you have the wrong person.
Maybe in the next life or the next next life. This wood's not nowhere in my wheelhouse of, yeah, I'll make him living doing that. Whereas you wanted to become a therapist. And I'm sure there are myriads of reasons why you wanted to become a therapist, but I fell in to that because I couldn't judge.
Not really. The recordings dried up. Interview post them on a blog site because no one would talk to me about their stories if they knew that I was gonna use my words and my.
[00:38:16] Speaker B: Okay, good point.
[00:38:19] Speaker A: Telling.
[00:38:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:20] Speaker A: And that's totally valid. I mean, I wouldn't want my story translated through the lens of someone else. And so I just switched modes from the written word to recordings.
Literally fell into that. And we haven't even been doing it for that long. Widgets started in 22.
And so. And yeah, we did two seasons. The third year, who wanted to do that? Me, because I had never heard of that being done. And so I would like I'm gonna do it. Does anyone care if I do it? No. Do I care? No. I just want to say I did it because it's a very odd way to start a show.
But yeah, so that is the origins of this show and how it's. I work with a fabulous team who helps me put it together each and every week.
And so I forget where we jumped off in oh yeah, season two.
[00:40:13] Speaker B: That was it.
[00:40:14] Speaker A: Doing six months of recording but not releasing it. And so yeah, talk more about the format. And like mine is very much interview conversational standard. I mean the only thing medicine from vets would be we don't have a pint of beer while we're doing that.
[00:40:53] Speaker B: Right.
[00:40:54] Speaker A: So. But it.
The artistic write, since it's that more structured or is it the opposite?
[00:41:08] Speaker B: So I tell you, first of all though, I will come to that. But the fact that you made that switch from written to spoken word and audible thing is so important because what I'm just, you know, we've never met. I've never spoken to you before. I've listened to some of the shows and what always comes across when I listen to your shows is this energy. It's incredible. But actually to be connected with you now, I was kind of jumping up and down in my seat. I mean, probably more my ADHD was get brain was getting really involved and very, very excited. It's really lovely. That energy that you throw out, that couldn't have come across in the written word, I imagine.
[00:41:54] Speaker A: No, no, it's that the other critical point that I wrote out and that you touched upon that energy.
It's because I've always had this innate curiosity about others.
[00:42:19] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:42:19] Speaker A: Even though I.
I am, oddly enough. And I don't think people Will believe me. I'm shy, but when you put a mic in front of me, give me something to say, I become not sure.
[00:42:42] Speaker B: And I know that you're an actor as well. So I mean, but how common is that?
[00:42:48] Speaker A: Thank you. But again, this podcast show would not have gotten anywhere out of my mind without the innate curiosity. And I'm so happy to hear that that energy comes through overly eating episode because it's what I've done episodes where I've had a foreign migraine. You wouldn't, you wouldn't know because when I'm in the zone, I'm in the zone and it's about having that euphoric and sometimes incredibly difficult conversations or conversations.
Not everything. It's sunshine and rainbows. In fact a lot of it isn't.
But we're not putting on a show to randomly add to the over saturation of noise.
This show means something and hopefully it's helping others broaden their perception and their viewpoints on disability.
What it looks like, what it feels like, what people with disability want. Which spoiler alert is exactly what. What they are non disabled counterparts want. I mean it's just like spoiler alert, spoiler alert. I know that's hard for some people to understand.
It really shouldn't be though. And it likes to the show like the artistic license was born out of servants. Born out of putting on or releasing a show that actually matters, that serves a purpose or myriad of puppet sids.
[00:45:50] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:45:51] Speaker A: We are not doing it God's because we're bored.
We, we have nothing to do. You're a full time therapist. You also co host full time therapy.
Yeah, people don't become part time therapist. I mean I'm sure there are some, but they exist.
[00:46:22] Speaker B: But yeah, that's, that's not me. That's right, it is full time.
[00:46:25] Speaker A: Again, neither one of us are bored that we're just like, hey, let's sit in front of a microphone and a camera and talk about weird because we're bored. Yeah, no one thinks like that.
[00:46:49] Speaker B: But also this is what you said before chimes in with what I was saying about, you know, what we, you know, the original purpose was we exist. There are autistic therapists in the world. You model. Absolutely. Something about a podcast and what's possible, you know, people will see you and there'll be people who will identify with you and your life and your ups and downs and all the things that you talk about and reframe what's possible. But I think that's, that's a Big part of it. You asked about structure, and I was kind of smiling and shaking my head. Oh, by the way, another sidebar. The captions have come up automatically on this zoom call, so it transcribes. And earlier when you were talking about relating to people, you said the word disability and it. And it came up as digability. And that was so cool.
[00:47:43] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I mean another cyborg. That's exactly what we do here. Yes. The Region 1. There are so many cyborgs in the separate. Is we should dig down deep. Oh, yes.
[00:48:05] Speaker B: Then that kind of dig as well. I was thinking of diggers in appreciation, but yes, digging down.
[00:48:11] Speaker A: Yeah, digging down appreciation, etc. Etc.
It's like vids. And this episode is a perfect example of it. Not to use US political term, but this is very much a fireside chat between two advocates. Two advocates on opposite ends of the world.
And politics are different. But regardless, it's like this episode started as a credential interview, but quickly evolved into just two colleagues who control about a few months ago had no idea who the other one was. And it evolved into.
I can't really now I can see it was boyfriend second. And now the conversation has evolved into judge to colleagues having a spirited conversation. And that is the whole point of the show.
And that's what makes it so engaging. So for it as the interviewee are they interview to be able to do it Vids back and forth. Vids back and forth. We can disagree.
At the end of the day, it's just about having the chemistry and the.
The shared energy of the show.
This is a very unscripted show. I've tried to script it a few times.
Dodge and walk.
Not as well.
And so it's like. But yeah, talk about.
[00:51:10] Speaker B: Well, that's it. That's exact. So you've just also described exact. So we don't have a structure. We've never even decided on a subject before we start. We just record for an hour or two and the structure comes naturally. Arcs always seem to happen naturally.
And what. What I'm. What I have, which I'm incredibly fortunate, is this brain that Shauna has where she can listen to a raw recording and just map out edits in her head. I don't know how she does it. I can't do this.
[00:51:47] Speaker A: So she's like the most sort of podcast.
[00:51:52] Speaker B: Oh, incredible.
[00:51:54] Speaker A: Well, China, I need to meet you.
[00:51:58] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:52:00] Speaker A: So she would just send me my favorite classical composer, by the way. Go on.
[00:52:09] Speaker B: Okay. Okay.
So that's how that. That what structure there is comes through the edit that we will then do. Yeah. And then it just goes out. And sometimes we'll return to themes because they were mentioned before. Sometimes we'll get feedback and we'll bring something in that somebody may have written to us about and. But so far it'll probably evolve, especially if we are going to, you know, if we're going to bring in guests, then that, that probably requires a little bit more thought, a little bit more preparation so that we can engage with somebody else that isn't in this kind of very, I suppose, sneaky way that we have of talking because we know each other.
[00:52:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:52:54] Speaker B: But I'm excited about. We're both excited about that and, and how that might be different.
[00:52:59] Speaker A: And so wrapping up, hopefully we do another episode together. And if you want me to ever come on.
[00:53:11] Speaker B: Oh yes, I was coming to that.
[00:53:14] Speaker A: Down and for that that's gonna happen. If there are any aspiring advocates who want to go into podcasting, being therapists, video cats, etc. Etc.
We've both worn unsure very many hats, very many different hats during our life time.
But you're my guess. And so what would be some action steps or some form of advice you would give aspiring advocates?
[00:54:04] Speaker B: Well, it's kind of similar to my. I've got a bit of a creative background. I've been a musician and I've been a designer. And often I'll have conversations with people about creative process. And the thing that always comes out is that you just don't police yourself. Whatever's in, let it come out now. I'm a hypocrite because I don't do that. I don't never allow myself to do that. This is why we recorded for six months and didn't release anything. I just thought it's not good enough. It's not good enough. If you've got something to say, it's so easy. And it's free now to speak into your phone, record that, upload it into a. To a podcast host or, or a blog or a vlog. Start to start.
[00:54:46] Speaker A: Yeah. So I like to think that both advocates with disabilities and those who have yet to discover or embrace their own disabilities, both legend and watch this show in groups within those groups.
But I'm not naive enough to think that everyone takes away the same points from every episode. And so, as my guests, what do you hope that advocates with disabilities take away from all the myriad of sideboards talked about in this episode?
And what do you hope that people who have yet to discover or embrace their own disabilities take away from.
[00:56:04] Speaker B: Wow. I'll do my best.
What do I get? What do I want them to get from the myriad of sidebars is that neither of us, neither you or me, intended to end up doing this.
It was. It was necessary. We found that we really, really enjoy it. And we had to both, in many different ways, I'm sure, get over all the internal barriers that we don't deserve it or that we shouldn't have a voice. You know, you absolutely do. And what was the second part? There was something about.
[00:56:43] Speaker A: That.
What? So the full question, two parts.
[00:56:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:56:50] Speaker A: What do you hope that advocates with disabilities take away from this episode? And what do you hope that those who have yet to discover are in place.
[00:57:07] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:57:07] Speaker A: Their own disabilities take away from the.
[00:57:13] Speaker B: You deserve to be attended to by the world and by yourself.
It doesn't matter that whatever comparisons you're making with other people, whether it's the they've got it worse than me, I don't deserve or whether it's nobody would be interested in hearing from me. That's not true. That's 100% not true.
Speak. Find your voice in whatever way is the most comfortable. That's the important first thing. And feel safe.
And allow. Allow that to feed back.
We, we need you. Because most of the people who end up with these kinds of platforms arguably don't necessarily have the best of intentions. A lot of it is ego driven and there's nothing wrong with it. I've got an ego. Yeah, you've probably noticed. There you go. But we need the people who are the most reluctant to speak up.
[00:58:16] Speaker A: Yeah, people.
People always ask me, do you listen to your own show? And I'm like, no. And that's not because I don't like hearing my own voice, but vibes you from now I'll still remember doing this episode like it was last week. I have all the episodes in my head. I don't know how they got there, how the topics cataloged, but it's like it's not that I'm avoiding my own show, it's that I already have the raw recordings like China does in her head in terms of edits and what not.
I mean I'm subscribed to my own YouTube channel, but do I watch it? No.
Because again, I can just close my eyes, drift and pick a chapter of any episode and be like, oh yeah, I. I remember just doing that lot week when this was years ago. But and so wrapping up good to hit this home more. It's what do you hope that are non disabled peers Run from O shows are creative output because while we both have egos, everyone does.
We both do a lot as each servant to others.
And it's like it's not that we don't want to be doing this. It's not something that we ever envisioned we would do and oh like doing and want to keep keep doing and so what do you hope that our non disabled peers learn about the disability community from listening to the yeah, I.
[01:01:30] Speaker B: Think just have a think about what your expectations are. We're all prejudiced. We're hardwired to be prejudiced. We're supposed to be. It's a survival skill. We're supposed to know don't eat bay areas that are that color because you'll die. So let's accept that prejudice is here. So let's challenge it. How has listening to us today confounded some of your expectations of what this might have sounded like? And just try to hold that in mind every time. Just try to be aware. Make the invisible visible in terms of prejudging.
[01:02:07] Speaker A: And in case anyone wants to find out more about the artistic license or has a question or two for you, what are the bad ways to get in contact?
[01:02:25] Speaker B: You can email
[email protected] I need to point out we spell license the British way rather than the American way with two Cs. No S, L I C E N C E or autistic spelled the same autistic license.com. our website has a contact form as well and we're on obviously as you are all the all the podcast platforms.
[01:02:48] Speaker A: So my friend, I enjoyed a big show immensely. I hope it's only the verse of many episodes quads episodes that we do together. Say hi to China.
Look forward to talking to you again very very soon.
[01:03:15] Speaker B: Thank you Keith. The feeling is mutual. I've really had fun. I've had such fun. Thanks.
[01:03:21] Speaker A: Thank you have been listening to Disability Empowerment Now I would like to thank my guests. You are listener and the Disability Empowerment team that made this episode possible.
More information about the pod can podcast can be found at disabilityempowermentnow.com or on our social media disabilityempowerment now the podcast is available wherever you listen to. Podcasts are on the official website. Don't forget to rate, comment and share the podcast. This episode of disability empowerment knowledge copyrighted 2020.
