[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to disability empowerment now, season four. I'm your host, Keith Mavidi. Genie, today I'm talking to Jenny Sichel, who is the operation director of the Natural Council on Independent Living. Ginny, so great to have you on the show.
[00:00:38] Speaker B: Thank you so much, Keith. I'm super excited to chat with you a little bit today.
[00:00:43] Speaker A: Jenny. It's also a Paralympian.
That should have been in the intro.
[00:00:52] Speaker B: No, that's. That was great.
[00:00:53] Speaker A: So we've been friends for years, quote unquote years. Never met in person, but I feel like I know you'd so well already.
For religionists and viewers who aren't interviewing you, Greece, tell us about yourself and how you got to where you are today.
Super broad question, but you've lived quite a life.
[00:01:40] Speaker B: It has been a very non linear path to where I have gotten to today.
I actually went to the Paralympics, the Rio Games in 2016, as a coxswain in rowing. Won a silver medal there.
[00:02:00] Speaker A: Could you define that term?
[00:02:04] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So the coxswain is the person in the boat who you'll usually see is shouting at the rowers into a microphone. And I kind of do three different things as a coxswain. I steer the boat, I motivate the crew, and I also do in boat coaching for the crew to make them.
[00:02:24] Speaker A: Go faster, debate a drill sergeant on water.
[00:02:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm really good at telling people what to do.
[00:02:37] Speaker A: I'm.
I don't doubt that at all, Jenny. So what got you interested in the Paralympics and how did you train for that in both body and mind?
[00:02:59] Speaker B: Yeah, so I actually started rowing in college at a division three college, Bryn Mawr. And.
[00:03:09] Speaker A: So how did you choose rowing as your element of sport?
Workout of choice?
[00:03:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
So in high school, I was in marching band and I played softball, and Bryn Mawr had neither of those. So I was like, well, what other sport can I do?
It was either soccer, which I played before high school, or rowing, which was one of two sports you could walk on with no experience at the college.
Soccer was like, oh, you reached out to us too late. It'll be an extra $100 for preseason training. So I was like, okay, I'm going to go join the rowing team. And that was how I got my start in rowing, basically, and then ended up actually injuring myself as a rower and switched over into the coxswain position. So that was kind of where I got my start there, and then ended up randomly coxing the adaptive national team coach at a race. And after the race, she ended up emailing me about two weeks later and was like, hey, you were really good. I'd love to invite you to some development camps and potentially have you come to try out for the national team.
And so that was how I got my start on the paralympic side of the national team. And it wasn't actually until I had been on the team for a while that I realized that my mental health was, my mental health challenges were actually disability. So I do identify as part of the disability community as well, not classifiable for the Paralympics, but a part of the community. And so, yeah, interesting.
[00:04:58] Speaker A: Can you tell me more about why mental health challenges aren't classifiable with the Paralympics? Are yours? What?
Yeah, so identify.
I mean, I'm confused.
[00:05:32] Speaker B: That is totally fair. So to give you a bit of an idea, the Paralympics have basically two broad types of classification. A physical disability.
Well, I guess, yeah, we'll say two. A physical disability or a visual disability like blindness.
And so within those two classifications, mental health is not a part of it. And so as the coxswain in the boat, you do not actually have to have a disability that is classifiable or disability at all. You can identify as able bodied.
And so I was considered like a guide runner would be for a blind athlete. I was an athlete competition partner at the Paralympics versus the designation of an athlete, because I don't have a classifiable disability. Does that help clarify?
[00:06:29] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely.
So how did your non linear journey, which I'm beginning to see wide on line, how did that lead you to your kind job?
[00:06:55] Speaker B: Yeah, so that was like the rowing side of my nonlinear journey or part of the rowing side. And then when I was actually in college and all throughout college, I really wanted to go into veterinary medicine as a career path. Right after I graduated. Yeah, I know. Right after I graduated from college, I worked at a veterinary hospital, volunteered there, and while I was there, realized that I actually liked interacting more with the owners than treating the animals.
And so I figured, you know, probably not the right career field for me.
[00:07:35] Speaker A: That's very smart.
[00:07:38] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:39] Speaker A: No judgment.
No, that was a very good pickup.
[00:07:48] Speaker B: Yeah, no, 100%.
And so I had wanted to be a veterinarian for like twelve years basically by that point, and I had not thought about any other career path to the point where I worked at zoos and that kind of thing, wanted to go into exotic animal veterinary medicine.
And so after I had that realization, I was like, well, what do I love to do? And one of the things was I always was interested in, like, medicine. And specifically when an athlete, like, went down on the field, what happened to them and how to treat them and how to help them. And so while I was training, I actually moved out to California, lived there for a little while and ended up working at Orlando, volunteering at a orthopedic surgery center, and worked a bunch of other odd jobs while I was there as well, including like, I was a barista, I worked as a fiduciary assistant, I worked in headhunting and I babysat kind of thing too.
[00:08:56] Speaker A: So. Ginny, what haven't you done?
[00:09:02] Speaker B: I've never jumped out of an airplane.
[00:09:05] Speaker A: Okay, fair enough.
Are you sure that the only thing you haven't done could you fledged quite a bit of jobs again? Have to go back to the non linear path. Yeah, that July had taken.
I, I mean, before we get to that, it's interesting that you wanted to be a vet for twelve years.
[00:09:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:53] Speaker A: And then you, for lack of a better term, fell out of love with it. I mean, I'm two or three years, I can totally see that.
[00:10:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:14] Speaker A: But I mean, well, it's like, I didn't think that would be a part of the interview that I would hop on, but because I'm a very serious person, I have to know kids. That's a good chunk of life.
Yeah. You mentioned that you liked interacting with the owners more than the animals. And I could make the joke, why do you hate animals? I don't think you do at all. Oh no, no, no joke. Uh, obviously. But do tell me what happened at the end of twelve years to have the insight of, well, vintage. Not for me anymore.
[00:11:28] Speaker B: Yeah. So I had never actually worked at a veterinary hospital.
And so when I did my volunteering and interning at the vet hospital that summer, I remember realizing, like, I love animals. Don't get me wrong, like, I absolutely love animals. I love being around animals, everything like everything like that. But I was finding it hard to.
Not hard necessarily, but I think I just enjoyed chatting with the owners more so than providing treatment for the animals. So if it was just interacting with animals. Great, let's go. I will do that in a heartbeat. But actually treating the animals, I just was having a hard time, I think like putting the two and two together when I actually tried it.
So I think I'd always had this kind of impression of something different. And then when I actually went and worked there, it was not what I had originally thought it was going to be and just not quite up my alley, in all honesty.
[00:12:43] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:12:44] Speaker B: So that was like the realization I had while I was working there. I was kind of like, you know, this isn't exactly what I thought it was going to be, and I'm not sure I want to go down this pathway, actually.
[00:12:55] Speaker A: So Ginny has been a pedaling being. She'd studied.
I had some veterinarian science done, several other odd jobs, small gidge bog, really, of other employment.
Again, non linear path to the extreme, really. How did that.
How did you end up as the operations director on the natural Council on Independent Living?
[00:13:49] Speaker B: Yeah. So while I was training, I was actually competing in Bulgaria at the time, 30 years old, and I applied for an internship at a different disability inclusion, philanthropic, nonprofit organization.
Got the internship, worked there for a little while, and then ended up becoming a part time into a full time position with that organization.
From there, the organization ended up departing the field of disability inclusion, and the program that I was helping run at the time got moved over to nickel. And so I actually applied to Nickel, which is the acronym for the National Council on Independent Living. I applied to Nickel for the coordinator role of that youth movement and got that position. So started working at nickel for about a year until the operations director position opened up. And so then I applied for that position and ended up getting it. And I was actually just at the end of my master's degree in public administration at the time when I got the operations director position.
So it kind of my, like, nonlinear path ended up bringing me into almost exactly what I wanted to do. I just didn't know it. And working in the nonprofit world and running operations, I love it. Like, I just love it. And eventually, I'd love to be an executive director someplace or run an organization.
So I don't know how it got me there, but I. We're here now, and I'm going with it. So that was my, like, convoluted pathway into this role.
[00:15:31] Speaker A: That's quite a journey.
And you mentioned earlier that you'd still train on the weekends, almost weekends.
Let's go into developing and maintaining the pelumbian mindset. And what did that mean and entail?
Because once a pale one being always a paralympian, we were talking about that much earlier, months ago.
And so, yeah, bring that up, because that's a fascinating subject to delve in.
[00:16:38] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So I think a lot of people see athletes and they are training their bodies to almost perfection to be able to perform on the international stage. And as a coxswain, I had to train my mind in a way to be able to perform on the international stage. So that means decision making, handling pressure, interactions with people, and also I think a large part of it is resilience, too, mental resilience. And now I definitely still practice that. I still get in a boat every now and then. I'm also coaching, so I still practice that sort of a couple of those aspects of the mindset, but I think also a lot of it takes place outside of the boathouse, too. So, like, in my current job, it's that challenge that I love and that sort of resilience that when something knocks you down, you get right back up and you come back even stronger.
And so it's like leading up to the games, it was definitely a bunch of that. I mean, you get told no and you're like devastated, and then you come back and it's even better.
But even now, like, you talk about practicing that and training, and, I mean, I'm planning a conference right now in DC, and there's been a lot of hiccups, a lot of challenges, and it's okay. We know there's always going to be this.
What can we do to make sure that any challenges that do arise, we find solutions appropriately, quickly and decisively, and those solutions have to be effective as well. So I think it's like what I learned leading up to the Rio Games as a coxswain and with that sort of mentality going into it, I can now practice and use in my everyday life in addition to being on the water with it.
[00:18:44] Speaker A: So when people think of paralympians, they think of people training their bodies mostly.
But you mentioned that you had to train your mind, which I'm sure every parallel being to some extent had to do. But I, when your focus is more the mind than the body, but also there's countless research on the mind body connection and really honing that. Like, I'll make a joke at my own expense here. If my body could talk and I'd say, hey, I really want to be a Paralympian, my body will probably look at me and be like, are you joking?
Yours will probably be. Okay, let's go. Cause we've been training the vids and I. So did you always want to be a Paralympian? And then one job Paralympian? Because how did, I mean, it doesn't matter if you don't go to another natural or international gains.
Once you're in, you're in and you have to maintain.
And that's where the mindset comes in, I'm assuming. And so how do you, for, again, lack of a better term, mentally walk the walk?
[00:21:11] Speaker B: Yeah. So I will start with your first question about if I always wanted to be a Paralympian.
I remember being six years old, and I saw Nancy Kerrigan on tv, and she said that she was six years old when she started figure skating. And my first thought as a six year old was, oh, my God, I still have a chance to go to the Olympics. So, yes, I have always wanted to go to the games.
Yeah, I know.
Six, six years old. I said, I want, oh, I still have a shot to go to the Olympics. I need to get started on a sport, was my thinking as a six year old.
[00:21:56] Speaker A: What would, what were your parents reaction to hearing their six year old daughters saying that?
[00:22:09] Speaker B: So I don't think I actually said it.
I just knew I wanted to do that. And my thought was like, oh, I saw the shot.
And actually, I, I think partially because of my mental health disability, I never actually voiced how much I wanted to go to the games. And I even remember because I didn't want to jinx it, quote unquote. So I remember in college, I told my coach, my rowing coach, and I was, I said, yeah, you know, I want to go as far as I can in coxing.
And my thought was, I want to go to London. I want to go to Rio. Like, I want to work this and do it. But I never said it because I was too afraid that I would jinx it. And that was totally part of my mental health disability coming in.
So funny story that you would ask that, too.
And then I think on your second question about it was about mindset.
[00:23:14] Speaker A: Yeah, mindset. And carrying formed that mindset.
[00:23:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:22] Speaker A: Because again, I'll, I'll keep following from the marines. Once a marine, always a marine, once a Paralympian, always a Paralympian.
[00:23:40] Speaker B: Yeah. So I think that a lot of my mindset was actually very much insecurity.
I had a lot of insecurity going up to the games. In fact, I think at one of our trials for the national team, one of our selection camps, I got so anxious, I have an anxiety disorder, and I got so anxious that my entire body and brain just almost shut down during camp.
And I came out of that camp, and I remember my coach, I was selected for the team. I got selected for the team. And I remember my coach actually saying to me, hey, Jenny, you are really good at camp this year. Like, you were super relaxed. And I was like, oh, if only you knew.
So I think, yeah, a lot of it was definitely, like, I think it's like honing your skills so much so that when you do have that anxiety. When you do have something else going on, you can still perform. And so walking the walk after the games, I think there's always going to be that insecurity. Am I doing this right? Am I good enough? Is this going to happen?
And at some point, especially as I've gotten older, part of me is just like, I need to be confident in who I am and what I am. And whatever comes out of my mouth comes out of my mouth sometimes. And I try to control it, but sometimes it's like that confidence comes out and, yeah, I'm kind of rambling right now, but that's okay. Um, I think that it's very much building that confidence until you can walk the walk and until you do have that credibility and that street cred, for lack of a better way to say it. And even then, there's some insecurities still inside.
But by that point, you have kind of, at least I have kind of learned how to work through those insecurities mentally.
[00:25:50] Speaker A: So talk more about how that mindset of a Paralympian comes in to play, for lack of a better word, pregame, impose game. Yeah, because we talked earlier what we were setting up for this interview, how not everyone can or does handle it effectively, and there's no shade or judgment there at all. But as layperson who knows nothing about this world, even if you've studied so much, which I do, it's part of my job, I want to know because I feel that there's a lot more information out there readily available about it goes back to the assumption that paralympians really work their body, really train their body. And while that's certainly true, you've hit on a very important point, uh, that I'm, I'm positive, you know, the verge and you're not the lads one to hit on this point. But the mindset is, dare I'd say it, even more important.
And what is it like to, to confront in your mind, regardless of a anxiety did sort of. Even if you do have an anxiety disorder pregame, how do you confront the Vincit's happening, the vids, win or lose or no matter what, it's going to alter your life and how people see you and feel about you, whether you know it or not, and that it is not, certainly not a burden, but a responsibility that you have to carry for.
And so walkage through, stay Mike walkage to beginning that journey pre game or even pre, pre game, and going through the whole games and then coach game and like to where you are now.
[00:29:51] Speaker B: Yeah. So I'll start pre pre game, because at least in rowing, I like to abide by. You don't do much different in practice, in a regatta or in a race that you don't do in practice. So anything you do in practice, you're doing in the race, and you don't change anything for the race, basically. So a lot of that pre race mindset comes into play during practice. And so you almost practice the mindset when you do pieces when you are on land. I did a lot of visualization, so it's really training the brain to be able to react to the different situations that you might encounter during a race.
And then I think also before the race, you semi bring in that mindset and you really.
For each person, it totally differs pre race. Some people really like being on their own pre race. I used to go sit, listen to music, and do visualizations before the race to calm myself down and really get in the zone. And then as soon as you hit the water, all of the anxiety disappears. It is so strange. At least for me, this is what would happen. I would get those pre raised jitters and nerves and kind of zone in, which is what I had done during practice. I would zone in when I was still on land, take time, do my visualizations, come out, lower my breath, that kind of thing. Just calm down the entire system a lot, because if I sound nervous, the rowers get nervous, and then as soon as we launch off the dock, we're in the boat together. So you know that no matter what happens, every person has each other's back in the boat. And that applies for the coxswain. That applies for any of the rowers as well. We are all athletes moving the boat together, so no matter what happens, you're in it with each other.
With that being said, one thing that we did practice before racing was the growth mentality and growth mindset, where we have worked hard to get here. We weren't born. I mean, I was born with the chemicals in my brain, but we weren't born with the ability to row, with the ability to take on this amount of pressure. We have worked really hard and almost built up the layers to get there so that if something does fail, the way I like to look at it, it's kind of like an onion. You know, maybe the outside layer fails, but you still have this entire core of an onion to rely and fall back on. And by the time you get to the paralympic level, that core is so built up that even if something does go wrong, you're able to still perform. And so having that growth mindset, like I worked hard to get here really helps when it comes to the performance.
Talking about, like, during the race, sitting on the start line is probably one of the most stress inducing things because especially as a coxswain in the boat that I was in, I am laying down in the bow of the boat. So that's looking directly down the race course, a totally empty race course, fully in front of me, just buoys.
And then they say, like, USA or United States of America, France, like, whatever it is, they pull all of the crews. So you're sitting there for a good two minutes looking down the race course before they even start polling, and then they pull all of the crews. And something that I picked up. I do a lot of skiing, too, downhill skiing and something that I just like, when I would go on a steep slope growing up, I'd say, well, you know, there's nothing to it but to do it.
And so I actually would bring that in when I was sitting on the start line of the race course. I'm like, well, you know, we're here. There's no going back. I cannot back out right now. Like, there's literally, we got to do it. Nothing to it but to do it. Let's go.
And so that was my mentality in the race. And just, like, sitting on the start line, and then you almost just fall back on everything that you've done during the race. Like, there's. I literally couldn't. I could tell you everything I've said during races, but it hasn't been anything different than during practices.
So you kind of, you read the race and give an idea of what's going on, that kind of stuff, and perform, but it's nothing different than something you've already done.
And then I think just to touch on the post race, for me, I've won a lot of international silver medals, and they always say that the even numbers are the worst to get, worst places to get, because second, you're just out of first, you don't go to a race to come in second and fourth, you're just out of the medals.
So for me, I think a lot of post race is decompressing.
And almost you've been on such a high functioning at such a high level for so many months that all of a sudden you have this massive, I don't want to say, like, devastation because it's still amazing that I got all of those silver medals, but, like, that's not what you go for. And so it's very bittersweet in a way, and so it's really decompressing from all of that.
[00:35:37] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, no, I don't, uh, obviously, but when I was mentioning Toad's raids, I mean, what you judged on, it's very important that the compression boge raids everyday life be carrying forth the mindset of Paralympian.
And don't want to pry too much into your personal life, but it must, once you're a paralympian, you're always paralympian. And I'm. So there are skills that you learn and fostered as a Paralympian that you use in your day to day jobs, in your interactions with other people.
And so what did you like carrying that mantle in your interactions with people in your everyday life, regardless of the situation?
[00:37:20] Speaker B: Honestly, it's not too much different than like training.
I think that you train the mindset and you train the way that you're thinking. And so I don't actively still be like, oh, okay, I need to visualize what I'm doing during my work day. No, I don't actively do that. But I do think that you have trained that mindset for so long and established it and grown it. It just kind of like living day to day. I'm just myself and I think that because I've trained it so much, that's become a part of who I am now.
[00:38:03] Speaker A: So it's a automatic mice. Yeah. Okay.
And so are you trying, are you hoping to compete again naturally in the games? Are you judge content, comfortable judge training and judge being where you are? Because you've had a very interesting life and you've only told me about a few years of it. Yeah, but in those few years, I mean, you'd said at the top, you've taken a non linear journey and boy, have you ever taken a John I still can't get over? Yeah, I want to be a vet, worked with animals for twelve years, and then, nope, I don't want to do that anymore. And I just go back to that six year old being, damn straight you don't want to do it.
[00:39:49] Speaker B: It's so true.
[00:39:51] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm snarky.
[00:39:54] Speaker B: Oh, snark is my language.
[00:39:57] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, we'll get along great at the next conference then. But it's like, it's so fascinating because all of those touch points, the smuggage bug of professional jobs you've had, have all in wage you'll probably never understand, completely had led you not only to training and competing in the penallympics, but also to the job you calmly do. How long have you been in that role?
[00:40:53] Speaker B: So I've been in my current role for about two and a half years now.
[00:40:58] Speaker A: And you seem pretty happy content in that role, and we've barely touched on it. What are some of your favorite things about what you currently do and what is it like being the operations director?
[00:41:29] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
So I think that, you know, I just, I love the people interaction that I have as operations director. I think that's one of my favorite things, is just chatting with people, getting different perspectives, learning new things, and challenging myself every day.
And I think that with what I'm doing, it is a lot of day to day stuff.
So a lot of making sure everybody has what they need, all the other staff have what they need to be able to perform, making sure that we basically keep the lights on, for lack of a better way to say it.
But in addition to that day to day and the people interaction, I also get to do. I was a math major in college, so I'm very much like an introvert.
Oh, totally, totally. There's a lot to me, but I'm also very much an extroverted introvert. So while I love interacting with people and chatting with people, I also recharge on my own. And so doing spreadsheets is like, one of my favorite things.
I love working in excel. I love. I know, I know.
So that's my other favorite aspect.
[00:42:55] Speaker A: No words. You've made me speechless for all of five milliseconds. I'm right now visualizing you decompressing from a busy walk day, a busy work week at home. I assume you have a dog, a cat, whatever. And judge doing spreadsheets. Like, some people watch tv, they read, they pig out on junk food. No, you're there.
They maybe have a beard, too. You just, they're doing spreadsheets. And I know it sounds like I'm making love. You. I'm not.
[00:43:53] Speaker B: No, I have a beer while I do the spreadsheets. Don't worry.
[00:43:56] Speaker A: Oh, okay.
[00:43:58] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:43:59] Speaker A: Goodness.
[00:44:03] Speaker B: I mean, you thought I was like, oh, why does she do spreadsheet? No. Have a drink while I'm doing none.
[00:44:10] Speaker A: That just makes my heart so happy. I hear that, but no, what is it about spreadsheets and doing them? Because that's a very interesting way of decompressing of strengths. Believe that.
I have to be honest, I've never heard someone say that. And so I assume that had to do with your math background.
Yeah, that's a very, very kidde way of decompression going to that mindset.
[00:45:06] Speaker B: So I don't always, like, during the workday, I'll do spreadsheets, and that'll help me decompress. Outside of work, I do enjoy a tv show or crossword puzzles or things like that.
[00:45:17] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:45:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:45:20] Speaker A: I would just imagine with a beer, doing my spreadsheets for, like, four, 5 hours and then getting ready to. For bed. It's like, well, that vigilization was way off. But, no, no, I mean, I wouldn't have been surprised by that because I don't. No, you may have. I may have been. Eugene, how you decompress after work, it's just, that's the image that.
Yeah, but so, yeah, and so what got you into spread sheets adds a tool for decompressing.
[00:46:24] Speaker B: I just really like it being quiet. And for me, a good spreadsheet, where you're really, like, figuring out numbers and formulas and making things match, is so concrete, there's no guessing to it. It's very much a puzzle, kind of like a crossword puzzle would be, or like a mind sort of puzzle would be where there's something wrong, it's not. The spreadsheet isn't working. What is wrong within it, and how can I make it work? And then when you get it to work, it's also very mathematical. So when you get it to work, it just like, you get that satisfaction immediately. There's no guessing. There's no anything like that. It's like, oh, look, the numbers match, love it type of thing.
[00:47:11] Speaker A: So what got you in to math, and where did that pageant develop, and what did that? There's always an answer that you can.
[00:47:32] Speaker B: Okay, so I actually got into math. So I do have a history of math in my family. My mom was a statistician. My grandma was calculus teacher. My dad works in economics.
So I do have a history of, like, math in my family. So there's probably some genetic component to.
[00:47:52] Speaker A: It, but math words encoded into your blood, fancy language like that. Go on.
[00:48:05] Speaker B: And so I actually became a math major in college because it was my sophomore year, and I was decided as a major, but I really wanted to go abroad for study abroad program, and it was the day abroad applications were due, and, of course, that's when I started my abroad application. And they said, oh, you have to have a major advisor signature on the sheet in order to study abroad. And I was like, well, shoot, I don't have a major.
What do I have enough courses in? And it was either math or chemistry, and it was tough to go abroad in chemistry, so I became a math major.
[00:48:42] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. So you.
Wow. Okay.
Another piece of the journey that. Wow.
Well, there's still many quits and turns to your not. I mean, and I'm sure we've only scratched the subjects of wow. Uh.
Damn.
Six year old. You had a game slamming the fact that, wow, it's been a non linear smoke bog of.
I'm the direct opposite of math major. I'm. Even though I have it in my family as well, I'm much more of a creative writer, so I love creative.
[00:50:05] Speaker B: Writing, too, and I love being creative and, like, doing crafts and writing nonfiction or fiction and just, like, yeah, I really enjoy that creative side as well.
So I think there's definitely, like, something to that maybe. I don't know if there's, like, a psychological reason for the fact that, like, I love the creativity and the math. Um, but, yeah, so.
[00:50:36] Speaker A: Creativity.
Animal.
Snarky.
[00:50:42] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I do improv, too.
I'm part of an improv group and called practically normal.
[00:50:51] Speaker A: That's a very apt name.
Do you do any acting? What about singing?
[00:51:02] Speaker B: I don't sing. I sing in the shower. I do do acting, but I don't sing.
[00:51:08] Speaker A: Have you thought about writing a book about training and really developing the paralympic mindset? Because just listening to you talk, it's like, we could totally make this into a audiobook interview very, very easily. And I mean that. I'm really pitching this idea to you on the podcast right now. Why don't you add yet another skill and just become a writer? Could you clearly have a lot to say about these subjects, and I think that people really get a kick out of and enjoy the non linear journey that you've been on, because it's not over, but, yeah. And hopefully not for a long time. But even now, where you are, where you started.
Oh, yeah, I'm a creative writer.
If someone asked me to write this story and to create a character like you, I would be like, okay, six years old, and she gets to there.
[00:53:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:53:07] Speaker A: 30 years later.
I mean, that would make my creativity improve.
And I like to think of myself as a very creative person, all insane and work, who's now rambling. So.
[00:53:37] Speaker B: All good.
[00:53:38] Speaker A: All I'm saying is, please put that in the back of your mind on future projects of something you should hopefully consider down the road, because that would be a vent read.
[00:54:04] Speaker B: So it is on my to do list, actually, already. Good, good. I have started looking into it. I would like to do that within the next year or two.
[00:54:14] Speaker A: Wonderful.
[00:54:15] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. No, it's already on my leg. Hold on. Let me find some time to do this kind of to do list.
[00:54:22] Speaker A: Wake up with the reduced shades. Oh, God.
Yeah.
Yeah. Break up with that. Be a chapter title.
[00:54:38] Speaker B: Go into a word.
Break up with the spreadsheets. Go to word.
That just, like, sounds like. I don't know. Sounds terrifying to me.
[00:54:50] Speaker A: You know, have that be what, that chapter.
[00:54:57] Speaker B: Yeah, right.
[00:54:59] Speaker A: Why I am terrified of waking up with spreadsheets? Cause Excel is my homie. It's really my primal love language. And how do I break out of that? Munch?
[00:55:23] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:55:23] Speaker A: Wow. We're having way too much fun. Like I said at the beginning, digits made sober.
But when. When I had to do the intro ten times.
We have fun here. Uh, sometimes, uh, wrapping up. And I do hope, Jenny, that you will come back, because I really don't want to close out this interview because you are such a delight to talk, uh, to. Uh. I had a no idea. I mean, that pre interview we did months ago was. I'm like, okay, we're doing it months later. I wonder how much of that it's still gonna hold true.
Turns out, almost all of it, but until. Please come back.
[00:56:40] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely.
[00:56:41] Speaker A: And so I like to end every interview a conversation with two questions.
Engage. There are any inspiring Creoles, nothing. Majors?
[00:57:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:57:05] Speaker A: Veterinarians.
Vet techs. None.
[00:57:11] Speaker B: All of the above.
[00:57:14] Speaker A: Kids? All the above. All self advocates wanting to make self advocacy of their conventional and personal mention.
As someone who's won many hats and had a very non leonard path to where you are now, what would be some advice you would give?
[00:57:50] Speaker B: Yeah, I think.
[00:57:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:57:53] Speaker B: My. So I live by my motto, which is, I'm a viewer of the gold lining, which you've heard of the silver lining. I am sick and tired of silver because I've won too many silver medals. I'm done with it. We're over. I'm leaving silver behind. So I am a viewer of the gold mining, and I think that the best advice I could give is that whenever anything goes wrong or something negative happens, if you have that mindset, you will always find a positive from it and grow from that experience.
And that is how I've kind of been able to bring through my resilience and grow. My resilience, in general is by having that mindset. And you may not see it immediately. It may not be immediate what that positive thing is. It could happen a year or two later, and you're like, wait a second. This is all because of that one negative experience that I'm now prospering.
But as long as you are looking for that and keep that mentality, it really will help you grow not only as a person, but career wise and friendship wise and relationship wise. So that's kind of my best advice that I could give, is just always keep that outlook, that negative things will happen. It's part of life.
Not everything always goes according to plantain, but it's not that they won't happen, it's what you do after them and how you make a negative event turn into a positive and then seeing it like that, too.
[00:59:32] Speaker A: Well, that's very profound.
[00:59:37] Speaker B: I try sometimes.
Every now and then you get a little sliver out of me.
[00:59:42] Speaker A: Well, I really appreciate that looking for the gold lining aspect because I've never heard that, but it makes sense. In your personal example of being done with silver, I like to think that both people, advocates with disabilities and those who have yet to discover or embrace their own disabilities, listen and watch this program. Yeah, I'm not naive to think that both groups or groups within those groups, yet these same things and take away the same things as the other groups.
Adds my dads and we've talked about a lot, and unfortunately, I couldn't book you for a five hour interview, which I'm really regretting. I'm really trying to figure out how I can make our next interview that long.
That woods a tangent.
We've talked about. Yeah, we've talked about so much and adds my guts.
What do you hope that advocates with disabilities take away from the zeppelin zone?
[01:01:50] Speaker B: You know what? I think that the best thing that someone could take away is just to always be yourself.
Speak up, because I know that a lot of advocacy and self advocacy is crucial to making changes. But speak up with kindness and a sense of empathy for who you're speaking with, because I think that a lot of times as advocates, we can demand what we need to change and be angry about it and, you know, harp on it, whatever it might be. But I think that a lot of times when you lead with that kindness aspect and that empathy that, you know, the people you're talking to are also humans.
So it's not like you're talking to a wall and can just scream at it like they're going to react to the way that you are speaking to them and talking to them.
And so I think if you view the gold lining and you advocate with kindness, that's what I would want you to take out of this.
[01:02:59] Speaker A: What do you hope that those who have yet to discover are embraced their own disabilities, regardless of what they all be them, mental, physical, psychological. What do you hope that they take away from the Zepp and zone?
[01:03:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that from a person who discovered their disability at a later age. I was 27 when I realized my mental health could be a disability and was classified as a disability.
I think, you know, don't be afraid of having a disability.
As soon as I got through the stigma of mental health and started speaking about it and talking more about it, you know, yes, it will turn some people off, some people will get angry at you, some people will hate on you. But you know what? Like, I mean, as Taylor Swift says, a hater is going to hate, but I'm who. Yeah, right. No, I do think, though, the way. And this is going back to that gold lining thing again, I think, you know, after Rio, I had haters online who were making negative comments about me, and my thought was, oh, my God, I made it. I finally have haters. This is so exciting.
Like, people are taking time out of their day to hate on me. Like, wow, I am honored. And, yeah, it still sucks, but, like, it's like taking it with that mentality and knowing that there are gonna be people who are always gonna be negative at you, looking at them with empathy, looking at what they're going through as well, but then being proud to have a disability, too, you know, we're community, and no one's disability is better or worse or anything like that. We all have our own experiences, but we can grow from each other and unite. And I think that for anyone that might be entering into the disability community or anyone that's been in the disability community for a while, like, we're in this together and we got to work together to make things happen.
[01:05:23] Speaker A: So Barry Wood said, my friend, I need to find a way to set up a five hour interview. Kids judge.
Such a joy to talk to. I've learned so much from you on your nonlinear journey that I hope continues for many, many years ahead.
You all breath of tread share and I will take away luck involved. The golden, golden lining or gold winding round the bended silver widgets.
Interesting mindset. If anyone wants to get in touch with you and has questions on anything, what is the best way to do that?
[01:06:40] Speaker B: Yeah, so I think on the sort of more personal aspect side and like, paralympics, that type of thing, non current work related side, best option would be, you know, send me a direct message on, like, Instagram or Facebook or something like that. My handle is j s, as in Sam, I c h. Rockin r o c k I n so it's Jc. Rockin is my handle.
Yeah, I love it. I'm owning it.
And who's gonna hate me?
[01:07:14] Speaker A: Absolutely should own it.
[01:07:17] Speaker B: And then for work related, I think the best. So anything, disability advocacy, independent living, anything like that, feel free to shoot me an email at my work email which is just jenny.
[email protected] whoa, jenny, I've had such a blast interviewing you.
[01:07:41] Speaker A: I really hope we get to do another episode very soon. I hope we get to meet in person at a conference.
Oh, what have you.
Your story is such one of perseverance.
I'm super glad you're thinking and I hope actively planning to write your memoir. And please do an audio book virgin I keep over audio books. I will be in the front row of your book. Let's go getting it signed. You are such a great person and I've learned so much from you and I look forward to learning from you for many years to come. Thank you so much for coming on today.
[01:08:58] Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me. This was a blast.
[01:09:10] Speaker A: You have been listening to disability empowerment. Now I would like to thank my guests, you, oledzina, and the disability empowerment team that made this episode possible.
More information about the podcast can be found at disability empowermentnow.com, are on our social media adjacent empowerment. Now, the podcast is available wherever you listen to. Podcasts are on the official website. Don't forget to read, comment and share the podcast. This episode of Disability Empowerment Knowledge copyrighted 2024.
