[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign welcome to Disability Empowerment now season four. I'm your host Keith Murphy. Di Ghincini. Today I'm talking to Mackenzie Morgan Gomez, A Mac feeds in the atmosphere who just starred in theater's Breaking Troubillian's production of the Neil Simon Kladzyk. I ought to be in pictures. Mackenzie, welcome to the show.
[00:00:50] Speaker B: Thanks for having me.
[00:00:52] Speaker A: So tell me about how you auditioned and got Tad in the Formation production.
[00:01:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I went the self submission route. I didn't have an agent at the time so I just saw the posting on Actors Access and submitted that way. I saw it was the first time I had heard of this company and I saw their mission and it just really lit me up. As someone who is newly disabled, it was really inspiring to see that there was someone out there who might want to see me for all of me. And I submitted that way and went through a couple rounds of video submissions before they brought me in person for my final callback.
[00:01:47] Speaker A: So you mentioned newly disabled. Welcome to the club.
Would you like to talk more about that?
[00:02:01] Speaker B: Sure.
I started going disabled in 2020. I started developing physical symptoms that were very unfamiliar to me and my body and it's been quite the journey to diagnosis. I'm still trying to figure out, you know, the, the full picture of what is happening to my body but sort of the all encompassing stuff is chronic pain and chronic fatigue that didn't exist, that didn't fully exist prior primarily in my legs. I'll get unpredictable numbness, tingling sometimes completely. Can't feel it for anywhere from a couple minutes to a couple hours and it's very unpredictable. So I, prior to 2020 I had really been building my acting career in musical theater primarily as a dancer first like as a dance captain, dance ensemble.
So using my legs was always something that I was very reliant on, I guess you could say. And now I'm. I'm experiencing movement and acting in a very different way. So it's only been a few years that I've been stepping into what this looks like and actually I ought to be in pictures at TBTB was the first job I've had since I started going disabled. So it was my first, my first job being fully disability informed and with a company that is disability informed. So it was a really beautiful match for me.
[00:03:53] Speaker A: So I yes, it was.
So I ought to be in pictures words written without disability in mind and it's not really performed that often. I believe TBT beats revival of it would the third of Broadway revival since the 60s, the 80s 80s. Yeah, yeah, 80s.
Big difference there.
Yeah, about 20 years.
And so how was it stepping into metaphorically a play that couldn't get at about kids? The character you play is not disabled, so how would it stepping in to that?
And since it's not performed too often, did you have a chance to see another production to study the character or did you just want to make your own interpretation?
[00:05:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:41] Speaker A: So actually going for the mouth for there.
[00:05:45] Speaker B: It's okay, I followed it. I followed it. Yeah. There's a couple questions in there. But what I, what I'd like to start with saying is a lot of people don't know I ought to be in pictures. It's not one of Neil Simon's most popular.
[00:05:58] Speaker A: No, it's not.
[00:06:01] Speaker B: But I happen to have read it in college and I. So I've known about it for over a decade.
[00:06:07] Speaker A: Wow. Okay.
[00:06:09] Speaker B: Which is very uncommon for most people. And I actually have been doing. Oh, there's a siren. Hopefully you don't pick it up, but New York.
[00:06:21] Speaker A: Production.
[00:06:25] Speaker B: Exactly.
But yeah, I have been doing one of Libby's monologues. Libby is the character I played and I have been doing one of her monologues since college. So for about a decade I've been doing one of her monologues and so I've known about it.
[00:06:43] Speaker A: So you were. Sorry to cut you off. You were like the. I hesitate to use the word perfect, but it sounds like with your background with the play, which I did not expect.
[00:07:06] Speaker B: Yeah, it's very interesting. Yeah. And I had that same kind of discussion with Nick the director, slash artistic director, as well as Andrea the casting director. In my final callback, we were just laughing about the fact that I, of everybody who they've seen, I'm the one who's known it the longest. But also when I learned it to begin with, I was able bodied, I was not disabled. And so. And the other element of all of that is I'm 31 years old. This character is 19. So.
[00:07:43] Speaker A: Dad.
[00:07:45] Speaker B: A little old.
And so there were just a lot of funny elements around it, but at.
[00:07:53] Speaker A: Least it's not 20 years different. There you go.
[00:08:03] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
But anyways, I, I've wanted to play Libby for so long. She's been one of my dream roles forever and no one ever does the show, so I've never been able to audition for it. But I've seen, I've watched clips on, on YouTube, I've read it, I've seen different portrayals online of Libby and I had that, that background knowledge going into my auditions. And then ultimately into the rehearsal process. But the piece that felt so empowering and scary getting cast in this role for me is our Nick and I had a mutual decision in making Libby dynamically disabled, similar to myself.
And so with. I don't know if I should give a definition of dynamic disability.
[00:09:02] Speaker A: Yes, please.
[00:09:04] Speaker B: Yeah. So dynamic disability essentially means the person who claims dynamic disability. Their symptoms can vary very drastically from day to day or from hour to hour. So the symptoms are dynamic. Being that for me, it manifests in. Sometimes I can walk without any kind of mobility aid and feel pretty much okay. And then a lot of times I have to use a cane. Sometimes we use a wheelchair. I actually just today got custom forearm crutches, and I'm really excited about those. And so there's, there's a level of dynamic range between how, how my symptoms manifest and so in making, in deciding to make Libby dynamically disabled, it was this idea that for longer distances she uses a wheelchair, but around the house she'll use a cane or hold on to furniture, etc, And I knew that that would be an interesting task to tackle with only three weeks of rehearsal because the show is not written for someone who is disabled in mind and the character is hitchhiking cross country in the 80s. And so we had to make all of that as believable as possible. It's very possible, but we had to make it believable without text that backed it up.
[00:10:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
So what is awards it about the character of Libby that was one of your dream roles and how did it become a dream role since it's not really formed that much? I mean, reading a play, it's reading a play and seeing it, believing. And so why, what.
What moved you so much about the character of Libby?
[00:11:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I.
I've just always really been like, inspired by her tenacity. And she's, she's just so, like, brave and, and committed to her. Whatever the task at hand is that she's decided she wants, she goes for it. Even if she's terrified, she tries. And I've always been really, I just, I don't know, like, intrigued by her sense of impulsiveness and commitment to going after whatever it is that she wants or wants to learn.
And I think one of the reasons why I've always liked this play too, on like a personal relating to it level is that I am from Los Angeles. I grew up in Los Angeles and then moved to New York. And so she did the opposite.
And so I did. I do. I've always really liked the depiction of the two cities and how it.
I don't know. I can just kind of connect to it. And even though it's the reverse of my journey in terms of where I ended up, it always was nice to like read a play that.
That took place in both areas in a way.
[00:13:00] Speaker A: So how would you like adapting material written?
It said in the 80s, not exactly now, but to have it relevant now and then talk more importantly about what it was like going into this play and doing what you just said, adapting a character for. For a dynamic disability that they did not have and holding that off flawlessly. And I feel very comfortable saying flawlessly but not perfectly for some reason.
[00:14:09] Speaker B: Yeah. In terms of the text, let's be honest, it's very dated. The text is very dated. There are certainly.
[00:14:17] Speaker A: I'm glad you mentioned that.
[00:14:21] Speaker B: It. I mean it. It is. I mean, every review mentions it. It's.
It just. I mean it. It was written when it was written and those. The. Some of the jokes did not age well.
[00:14:35] Speaker A: Whatever do you mean?
[00:14:40] Speaker B: Exactly. No, I.
There's definitely elements of misogyny. There's definitely some poorly phrased gay jokes. It's. It's not. There are certain elements of the text that If Rewritten in 2024, I think could be updated.
But the Simon and state doesn't allow rewrites, at least as far as I understand.
[00:15:10] Speaker A: And so I don't know many states that allow rewrites. To be fair, I don't read such that area. But like I've seen the McCartney stage in 30 years to rewrite the lyrics to yesterday.
It's like.
[00:15:39] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:15:41] Speaker A: Anyway, Paul McCartney isn't dead, by the way, in case I'm throwing anyone off. It juds.
No, it's misogyny or gender identity. Funny. It's just I saw the play once on opening night and there are jokes in there that are.
Yeah.
And then mo. Some of them went over my head or only hit me when I was back at my plates.
So.
Yeah.
But yeah, it was written in the time it was written. And even if the Simon had stayed loud rewrites, which again, they don't.
You will probably have to rewrite the bulk, if not the entirety of the play itself. And then why are you doing the Abra tag instead of a brand new walk?
[00:17:18] Speaker B: So.
[00:17:23] Speaker A: Poly humor aside, what would some of the other challenges and up swings of adapting a walk? Yeah, the here and now.
[00:17:45] Speaker B: Yeah. I think ultimately our approach because we chose to do the show that we're doing. Right. Like you're saying in it takes place in 1980 and it has 1980 jokes. Like that is. That is the script that we have trying to make it as honest and truthful as possible.
Like, while there are certain elements of the show that are not perfect and didn't age well, ultimately the overall script, in my opinion, is still very funny and very sentimental. And it has this really nice fusion of comedy and drama that it. As an actor, it's so fun to play with.
And so our. Our way forward was to just find the humanity within each of our own characters and try to make that as truthful as possible. Because real everyday humans say some messed up stuff anyway. Like, you know, like, we're not perfect, we make mistakes. We have our own baggage that we come with and. And just sort of approaching the work from that angle and knowing that we have the frame of mind that we are taking place in 1980. And these are things that people in 1980 said and so kind of leaning that way. But in terms of adaptations otherwise there was only one, I think two lines that we did slightly rewrite.
I like the Simon estate, knew that we would have to do some judging for this one. One little area in. To make my character and the through line with using a wheelchair and a cane make it all sort of make sense.
So there were only two lines out of the whole script, out of this whole two hour play of only three people talking, There were only two lines that we really had to adjust slightly and it still kept the same plot. It was just like a wording issue. Like, you know, so it really wasn't that bad. It was more so the challenge, not even. It wasn't even that challenging, but the real piece of integrity that we had to constantly be bringing in the room was the continuity of how do we make this set or this relationship or this blocking work with a wheelchair, work with getting up and using a cane, et cetera. Those were the types of logistical things that we had to work out so that the audience just experienced it versus watching us work it out, if that makes sense.
[00:20:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:40] Speaker B: And I'm not the only one in the cast who has a disability. Pamela is legally blind. And so we had. There were a lot of elements in rehearsal and on, on the set for performances that we had to implement to make sure that she was protected and accommodated for the needs that she had because she's blind, but she is playing a character that is not. And she chose to continue playing that character as sighted. And so there was this flip flop for her of accommodations and adjustments needed. And I think while between the two of us, there were a lot of things that we had to really consider. It ended up playing out really nicely and believable for the most part.
[00:21:22] Speaker A: So how would you. Developing the strange relationship between Libby, your character, and the whole point of the play, that strange daughter looking up her loan, Lord's father and crashing at his plates and trying to make it as a actor in the 80s. What would that process like?
Yeah, not Judge Edge acted, but. But adds characters. And.
[00:22:17] Speaker B: Honestly, rehearsals went by so quickly.
I think one element that Chris, who played Herb and I had in our favor was that we didn't have a chance to get to know each other as just Chris and Mackenzie anyway. So there was an elder. It was so fast, you know, like, I'm kind of being hyperbolic. But yeah, there was an element of we didn't really have time to really get to know each other. And we leaned into that and.
[00:22:52] Speaker A: Interesting. Can you say more about that, kids? That would. That sounds to a lay person to be the opposite of productive in.
[00:23:11] Speaker B: Right.
[00:23:12] Speaker A: The relationship that you and kids have on stage throughout the entirety of the work. And so I'm naturally curious how leaning into not knowing who the other person was actually worked out.
[00:23:38] Speaker B: Yeah. So let me be clear. Let me.
Let me get a little more specific on this. There was always respect and care and understanding with each other. We definitely. It's not like we ignored each other and didn't say hi to each other at rehearsals. Like, we were very much happy.
[00:23:55] Speaker A: That would be even more weird.
[00:23:58] Speaker B: That would be so weird, Right? Yeah, definitely had like a.
I don't know, a respectful, colleague understanding with each other. But I think the difference. That was really interesting. And this wasn't even an intentional choice. It just played out this way. Naturally.
Pamela and I had, like, a similar walk to the train, for example, leaving rehearsal. So we got to know each other and got very friendly very quickly. Chris had a different commute, and so just we. In those free. Those minutes of free time, literally minutes, we did not have long breaks. We didn't have a lot of time to. To chat. But in those commute moments, just walking to the train, for example, Pamela and I got to be more friendly. Buddy, buddy kind of a thing behind the scenes. And Chris and I just had less frequent interactions throughout the three weeks of rehearsal other than when we were working on our scenes, which is obviously a lot of. Of interaction. And by the time we got to the theater, of course, we all knew each other more on a deeper level and whatnot. But it just became an interesting sort of Balance. At opening, the opening night party, someone had asked Chris if we ever hug backstage. To, like. Because we have to hug three times in the show and, like, work up to making it less and less awkward.
And Chris is like, no, we don't touch backstage. Absolutely not. No, leave it for the stage. And, like, made like, a funny little, like, no, of course not. No moment. And so they're just like, little funny.
Funny.
Like, we didn't intentionally get meta with it or get, you know, method acting for it or anything like that, but it just sort of played out that way backstage and stuff. And. And, yeah, I don't know. It's interesting just. Just the process of working through all of our scenes and trying to make the trajectory as honest and believable as possible, from basically not knowing each other at all to having a very deep bond by the end.
It was the nature of working on those scenes together that really helped. It helped it come. Come to life versus anything that we talked about or had the time to work on behind the scenes.
[00:26:34] Speaker A: Yeah, it's interesting because throughout the entire play, you are building these complex relationships and it's tug of war. And then by the end, it. It gets very.
There's a lot of.
But family intimacy in the reconciliation, and it's actually quite emotionally moving. And so to hear the. That.
I'm not gonna say fabricated, because that. But it wasn't.
And I assume you and kids had never walked before together before.
It's. It's incredible in a good way that the level of intimacy between the characters at the very end of the journey weighs off because you can read it in the script.
But as you well know, there's a big difference between reading lines and acting them out and then acting them out believably.
So what else about this particular play? Because as we've said several times, it's not one of Neil Simon's most known modes performed, but it is a highlight for you to talk more about. About what drew you to the entire play itself.
[00:29:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:05] Speaker A: Hitting questions. I know.
[00:29:09] Speaker B: No, I'm like. Well, I have to think about that deeper. Like, beyond just. Well, I've always liked it. I don't know.
I.
[00:29:19] Speaker A: Well, why?
[00:29:22] Speaker B: I think.
I don't know, like, beyond what I shared about what I've liked about Libby's personality from the first time I read it a decade ago. Like, I think that was ultimately what really drew me in and to.
There's. There's also an interesting element for me of. My mom was basically Libby's age, like, in this era. And so it's interesting. It was always interesting to me to like, yes, I can hear stories from my parents on what their life was like at that time in Los Angeles. But it's another to get a different perspective from a play, from a medium that I love so much. Like to read one version of a story from 1980 of a brave go getter type young adult. Like, that process and how she interacts with the world has always been really interesting to me and really enticing to, to look into and then to see how like the juxtaposition of her versus her father play out throughout the script. It's not something that I've necessarily really read before. Read something like it.
Yes, of course there are tons of plays on like familial tensions and whatnot, but to, to have the only characters be her, her dad and her dad's girlfriend create some really interesting dialogue and interesting scene work that I think really dive into sort of like human connection and human nature. And, and what, what does intimacy mean when you don't know each other? What does intimacy mean when you've known each other for a long time? And, and all of those types of elements has just been interesting to me and I don't want to make it seem like it's more than it is. Like, I know that it's a comedy and I know that it's has its faults, but I do find it really enticing and, and it was such an honor to work on it in this capacity to really make these characters that I've always read about come to life and, and see how they navigate the world and how audiences respond to it. That was like such a gift to this play that I've read a million times to then be, you know, done for real.
[00:32:15] Speaker A: You mentioned earlier that when you first started auditioning, you hadn't become disabled yet or gone disabled. And so. But then you went disabled or gone disabled personally. What would that experience like for you? Personally, but also as a actor transitioning and using your body in a very different way than you did before?
And how did that.
Another mouth full of questions, but they all loop back.
How was it applying what you had learned from your adaptation of your art to the adaptation of Libby?
Again, hard hitting questions.
[00:33:40] Speaker B: Hard hitting question. But this one I can talk about all day because I, I mean, I've just been asked this specific question before and it's.
[00:33:50] Speaker A: You heard it here, folks.
Agreed to do a five hour interview.
[00:33:58] Speaker B: Yep. No, I.
[00:34:02] Speaker A: Hey, I have to make up for the joke.
[00:34:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I, I've Always. Like I said, I started off as a dancer and I, I did go to college for musical theater and, and was able to encompass more singing and more acting and all of that. And so when I moved to New York City in 2016, I've been auditioning primarily for musicals this whole time and joined the union because of doing a musical and all of that. And so that's been how I've been building my career.
And when I started to get sick, I did have. It was interesting timing with the pandemic that we were in lockdown when it started to happen. It was not Covid related, but it was. The timing was the same and, and so I had a little bit of time to not have to be in the audition scene. Have to be. Nothing's have to, but you know what I mean? Like I had a. Yeah. Sort of built in break there of trying to figure out what the heck was going on. And for me I was really scared at first and like I. Looking back, I'm so proud of, of how much my mentality has evolved on it all. I, I used to think of what was happening to me is like such a curse. It was the end of my career. I could never dance again. Like that was really the, the really negative ableist dialogue that was in the back of my head, honestly. And, and I've learned so much over the past four years and I've met so many fantastically creative disabled artists along the way that I just, I had no idea what I was getting myself into and I didn't know what was possible because I had never, I had never met anyone who had. Who was doing it, who was pursuing this at the level that I wanted to pursue it. And then all of a sudden it was like the floodgates open. And once I met one person, I met 10 people and then I met 50 people, you know, like, it just sort of, even if it was only online, it was really phenomenal to. And very like transformative in my process of, of not just coming to terms with my disability, but making my art disability informed and like choosing to go that route, meeting other people in the community who were doing it first. Proving to me how this was absolutely not the end of my career if I didn't want it to be. This was not the worst case scenario that could ever happen to me. Yeah. Is it challenging to adapt when you've been living your life a certain way for, you know, 27 years or whatever? Yeah, that's gonna be hard for anybody, but yeah, you know, but it doesn't mean, I'm not an artist. And that process, I really had to like, overcome that hurdle and, and I personally did not want to start auditioning professionally again until I was ready to go into that audition, any audition room, fully claiming my full self and my disability and accommodation needs and all of that in a confident way so that whoever was behind the table could feel comfortable and confident too. Yeah, I didn't want to go into an audition room embarrassed or apologetic. You know, I'm so, you know, like, I didn't want to seem sheepish and, and nervous about my own needs because they don't have time to accommodate someone who doesn't know what to ask for in professional settings. It's so fast paced.
[00:37:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:56] Speaker B: So that was, it was a lot of personal development that I had to go through. And so I went through all of that behind the scenes and then fully stepped in. I was kind of auditioning a little bit here and there, but it was January of 2024 that I fully committed to auditioning again, like really full time going for it. Musicals and plays all across the board and, and that I really approached it honestly with the tenacity that Libby approaches her life of. Yeah, I don't really know what's going to happen, but I have to be coming across as confident as possible because no one's going to take me seriously otherwise. And. And it just, it just worked out. The universe aligned that this was my first job back and. And so I just kept running with that mindset shift that I had to make for myself and what an honor to work with the people that I got to work with and, and see like someone like Pamela. I look up to her so much, who has had a long career before. I've got come into this scene to sort of show me the way of like, yeah, there are, there are going to be challenges and ignorant comments and whatever, but ultimately, if you know what accommodations you need, they can be met and you just have to be confident in asking for them.
[00:39:18] Speaker A: So adapting the character to a dynamic disability.
And what would that process like? And you touched on it earlier about juxtaposition to the own personal development that you were going through because Libby groves or goads through her own metamorphic sets throughout the play.
And so what was that like? And what did you bring to that? Did you learn anything from embodying that metamorphosis? I mean, I mean, you mention her determination a lot and that character is very determined almost from the third moment we see her. But there are moments where she is really unsure of herself. I won't give anything away from Neil Biden like that.
But so, yeah, talk about did the mulchage sits between actor and character? Did they match? Did they pull part? Did they do both?
[00:41:10] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, definitely informed each other.
[00:41:14] Speaker A: Yeah, informed, definitely.
[00:41:16] Speaker B: And make. Choosing to make Libby dynamically disabled versus because we knew she would be disabled, we knew that there would be an element of disability within the character because there's an element of disability within me as the actor. So we knew that was going to be. And that's, you know, the whole mission of the theater. So we knew that. But the big question mark was if I felt comfortable having her use a wheelchair. And that was the question that was like, I am. So I have not owned my own wheelchair before. I've used wheelchairs before. I do consider myself an ambulatory wheelchair user, but I have not owned my own before.
And so whereas I walk with a cane every day. So, so like that, that was a conversation that we really had to have. In my final callback before going into rehearsals was how comfortable did I feel representing this community of ambulatory wheelchair users on stage when I don't even own one myself? So there was an imposter syndrome that was happening early, early, early on, but I think one of the coolest. There are so many fantastic and cool things that happened for me in the show process. But there's a two month process from rehearsals starting to closing.
But one of them is because I chose to use the wheelchair in the show and I wanted to make it as truthful as possible and, and, and really have had to go through every piece of blocking to make it make sense of like, would I really be using the chair at this point? Would I really be using the cane at this point? Where would I logically park it if I'm not familiar with the house versus where would it end up being parked once I get more comfortable in the house? So it was a lot of less about language or character because that would develop as time went on. But in the beginning, early stages, it was blocking. It was making real human choices with these mobility aids as you would in any home, right? And through all that process, I was using the wheelchair quite a bit to try and make sure it was as comfortable as possible. Navigating it. A manual wheelchair takes a lot of upper arm strength and a lot of core strength actually too. It's. It's not easy, folks.
[00:43:42] Speaker A: No, it's not.
[00:43:44] Speaker B: It's not easy.
But by like the end of week one of rehearsals, I was like, already Looking on ebay to buy myself my own wheelchair because it had helped me manage my symptoms so much more than I ever realized it could.
And just because I can walk, I've told myself I have to walk.
But really I've. I learned through the show and through asking myself the questions of what made the most sense for Libby. What made the most sense realistically, would Libby use her chair? Xyz and like, going through all of those detailed questions made me start to think about how I mackenzie navigate mobility aids in my own life. And like, am I making the best choices for my manifestation of disability? And I actually just bought a chair on. On ebay. It's only two years old. I'm really excited to go get it. To use a chair for longer distances, I don't need one all the time, but I learned through the show and through Libby's use of a chair how it can really help and. And help bridge those gaps of, like, longer distances that maybe I would be timid to actually commit to going because I don't know if my legs will hold up that long.
Having the option is.
Is important. And I think the other piece of that that I'll just add is I also knew that most likely this is the first time. I don't know for sure, but at least from what I could find searching it on the Internet, I think this might be one of. One of the first times that someone has stood up from a wheelchair in a show.
And like, the ambulatory piece of, like of. Of promoting the show in that way. I haven't seen that really publicized much. And audiences made sure that I knew they had never seen that. Let me tell you, they had a lot of questions about ambulance. They had never seen that before, never heard of an ambulatory wheelchair use or before.
[00:46:06] Speaker A: And wait, you mean Hub didn't magically say a prayer Bedroom. And then, I mean, you didn't get Harry Potter.
I'm being a goo ball. No, no, I, I can imagine that.
And that to me was interesting, but it would be even more shocking and downright insulting if you got up and didn't reach for the cane. That would be like, oh, are we doing here?
But no, I. I can not bridge it, but I can understand why that would raise eyebrows to people.
How was it playing a teenager again?
And how did you do it so convincingly without.
I mean, let's be real. Teenagers aren't known to be the most mature. But you're an actor. You're doing your job. You're so how. How would. And Then applying a, a teenage mindset to having a disability. I don't know. You wouldn't have added it into the. Well I was always born this way. I acquired it later. How was it going back to teenage years and also applying that with the professional vigor that you did on stage.
[00:48:31] Speaker B: Thank you. Yeah, just a lot of character study and like human studied reflection on like the, the body language of teenagers was where I started of like I, in college I did a lot of. That was a lot of interacting classes. We did a lot of like go watch someone on the street and then you come in and you try and embody them and yeah.
[00:49:03] Speaker A: People watching. It's large art. It's yeah. Dodging a bad.
[00:49:12] Speaker B: Careful about it.
[00:49:13] Speaker A: But yeah, but I mean it's like what do you think? Going to theater. It's going to movies.
[00:49:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:49:23] Speaker A: Do you think?
Yeah, it's like to talk about that.
[00:49:32] Speaker B: Yeah. So like I started with what are like stereotypical things that are like surface level or superficial body language or habits that I see teenagers use when they're confident versus when they're nervous? Is it do they play with their nails? Do they not make eye contact? Is it like hair, tux, Is it like like.
Yeah, yeah. And like. Yeah. So just sort of those more surface level things of like okay, what is the energy? Where do they carry their weight in their bodies? And and so I started there and for me, being that I've was able bodied much longer in my life than I've been disabled, I studied it from an able bodied perspective first just because that is what I'm more familiar with. And from there then applied the disability and then applied the mobility aids and, and started to add on the actual depth and, and context of her life.
So I wanted to embody that of a 19 year old who happens to have a disability versus I didn't want to like bring stereotypes of disability in first like that didn't I. That didn't feel genuine. Right. And so I wanted to go the other route and between that body work and then just the text like her lines, she could be as confident or pretend confident as get out but at the end of the day her text is written for her 19 year old and the ignorance is there, then the naivety is there. She's clearly very young, doesn't know a lot. Even if she carries herself as though she does, she clearly doesn't know.
[00:51:35] Speaker A: And again you play that off so authentically, like there's not a moment in the play and I'm re watching it as I'm Talking to you. Well, I'm like, oh yeah, she's acting. She's trying too hard. A teenager would never do that. And then you have to also factor in how a teenager would act in the 80s in that socioeconomic area to how they would act in the present day or wherever you want the audience to really focus on which is the 80s. But you have to bring it up to date somehow and so people don't move the same like they used to in mind all body the similar weights of the same ways. What are some of the highlights of the pod sense of judge adapting a ledger known rock Such a iconic man or iconic person of the theater.
[00:53:30] Speaker B: It man. So much of it was a highlight for me to be able to work on a Neil Simon play at all. Like to use to be able to work on the text of his work at all is such a gift. And it's so much fun. And the banter. There's a rhythm to it. There's a. It's an art there.
[00:53:51] Speaker A: It.
[00:53:52] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's. It is hard coming into it. But it's so fun once you get it down. Once you get your millions of lines down. It is fun. It is like a tennis match. His.
[00:54:04] Speaker A: His text knowledge, you know.
[00:54:10] Speaker B: I think I stole that from Chris. I can't even take that as my own.
But it's true. And it's. It's.
[00:54:17] Speaker A: It ridiculously between the father and daughter. It's going back and forth. I mean the only other way to make that analogy much more clear is to put an actual tenant ratchet in Libby's hand and one in Herb's hand.
That dynamic. And so that's right on.
[00:54:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
So that was definitely a highlight was to be able to tackle his work and because it's not as well known, not falling into any tropes or traps of previous adaptations. Like we really just from the beginning got to make it our own for so many reasons. And that was. You know, it's harder that way, but it's also more fun and more authentic that way. So it was. It was so, so, so cool. And then to add on the element of my character being dynamically disabled again, it was like a more challenging choice for us to make to make it realistic. But then for to have that moment of it clicking and it making sense to us made it so much more fun to then make it make sense to the audience and like it. It became like a rite of passage almost like it just felt. Every night felt it was just empowering is the best word that I can can use for this whole process for me of just showing but not telling that dynamically disabled people can live through this normal life story like a family tension type story that we've all had or experienced or witnessed that can happen to anyone. It's not just if you're able bodied. And so to like really showcase that without it being a topic of discussion in the script, I could feel and hear the audience, their wheels turning and them just going from wondering about it when I first entered to almost forgetting about it by the end and.
[00:56:42] Speaker A: And like that maybe not what you want.
[00:56:44] Speaker B: Yeah. And like I'm not to say like I don't want you to see my disability because actually I, I do. But. Yeah, but for it to the concern about needing an answer as to what's going on. Why is she in a chair? Why is she using a cane? Those questions to melt away and not matter anymore was really, really cool to see. It was such a highlight. And. And while yes, I had some discussions with some audience members that challenged me and I had to exercise some patience with. With education, disability education. But overall.
Well, first of all, I'm glad they even asked and were wanting to. I'm glad that people want to learn. That was the whole point. But also to meet so many disabled audience members and them sharing their stories with me and how it impacted them and how what it meant for them to see someone in a wheelchair stand up on stage and it not to be some moment like, you know, like to. To hear all of the different ways that it's impacting other people with disabilities.
It. It made it matter that much more like it encouraged me to continue to lean into the truth of it all and to continue to lean into making it as authentic as possible of an experience for everyone both on stage and off.
The highlights are endless, but those are the ones that come to mind.
[00:58:16] Speaker A: So just a few more questions and thank you so much for your time.
What you mentioned this was your first job back since going dead seaboard and you mention that being a part hired in a part of a theater company that wanted to see and embrace all of you.
What would that like? And did it make the transitioning back to your career from the very negative ableist good for nothing to being one of the Legion and the old Simon play and holding it all flawed lay what would sound like?
[00:59:30] Speaker B: Well, I'm crying first of all happy tears.
I could not be more grateful for this chance. I knew that I wanted to get back to work and I knew that I wanted to have my work be disability Informed. But I could have never, like, dreamed up a more aligned opportunity with a company that. Whose mission statement aligns with my life statement. You know, like it's. It. It.
I don't even remember what your first. What your actual question was, but I just crying at that.
[01:00:20] Speaker A: So what would.
I mean, I'm almost having trouble and I.
The damn question, so what would you like having the third job, coming back to your career, being such a empowering, inclusive employer. And did that.
I don't want to use the term.
Set your inner actor free of any lingering fear or whatever. I. I don't mean to try to. Yeah, I'm just trying to get to that.
[01:01:27] Speaker B: Yeah. It.
It meant everything to me. It. This getting this job and being able to. To work on.
Work on it. It's not just my Off Broadway debut, but it's a dream role and it's disability informed. All of these elements coming together for me in this one moment.
It. I hate that I'm someone who needs outside validation, but I am an actor, so I'll just say it. I need outside validation.
[01:02:02] Speaker A: You're also human.
Humans, actor or non.
[01:02:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:02:11] Speaker A: You need a lot of accommodation.
Judge. Throwing it out there.
[01:02:19] Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you.
But it's true. And like, I. I can do as much personal development on my own as possible, and I can say all the affirmations to myself and. And give myself a pep talk before auditions and whatever it is that I have to do to get to show up in auditions and just exist.
You know, I. It takes so much. And it's one thing to say it to myself, but it's a completely other to have a casting director see. See me that way to. To.
Yeah. Give validation to. To the story that. The narrative that I was hoping I could start to tell, for someone else to buy into that and say, yes, and let's go.
That made such a difference in my belief that I can do this and my belief that there's. There's so much growth that disabled performers that our community can accomplish if. If there are just more people behind the table willing to have the conversation. And I. I just. I've learned so much in the past two months about myself and the industry and the Gap that we need to continue to close together.
[01:03:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:03:45] Speaker B: But knowing that there are people out there and companies out there like this that exist and are doing that work and making sure that that representation is a priority, it fuels me to keep going. It ignites this fire in me of, like, all right, I have this under my belt now. I know that I have people in my corner and I'm going to make myself known and I'm going to keep going and I'm not going to apologize for the different way that I might need to move through a show. I'm still fully capable of performing seven shows a week. I'm capable of leading in a show. I'm capable of all of these things. And maybe even it'll make the story better if it's disability informed.
[01:04:36] Speaker A: So if there are any inspiring actors, dancers, musical theater performers or advocates wanting to make their career in their chosen field, what would be some action steps that you would provide them.
[01:05:11] Speaker B: If they're wanting to pursue me like theater as a performer?
[01:05:16] Speaker A: Yeah, theater, dancing, acting in the here and now. Bird seeds in the before times.
Like I'm thinking if a college or university student happens upon this episode and wanted to know more.
[01:05:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I would say community is everything.
And there's no linear route to a professional acting career that it's so spirally and different for everybody. But for right now, disabled actors, unfortunately we have much more work to put in.
Auditions are, I'm not gonna like sugarcoat it. Auditions are not super accessible all the time. There are a lot of barriers that we're still trying to break. But it's a lot easier to do that and to have the confidence to ask for what you need when you have a community of people backing you. And that has made all the difference for me in my life and, and I'm not even saying that it has to just all be disabled people in your life, but able bodied allies who are willing to fight alongside you like that community is really important. I think that's important. Community is important for anyone trying to pursue this career because it is so hard. But if you are disabled and, and thinking of, of moving to the city or just pursuing this anywhere, just leaning on your, your people, your support system is huge. And something else that helped me a lot. A mentor of mine had me before I was even really auditioning or in callbacks or anything, had me write out in like a hypothetical sense when I'm hired on a show, what are the access needs that I need to ask for? What are my non negotiables? What are the things that if they can make it happen, would make my process that much better so that I can be a better actor and a better creative in the room, better collaborator. I wrote out those accommodation requests for myself not knowing what, what show I might get hired on.
So I had that backing when I was going into negotiations and I did get the offer and all of that. I had something like, tangible that I had written prior to any emotions of the excitement of getting hired. I had my needs written out to reference back to when I. When I was asking for what I needed. And obviously this is a company that is very used to accommodation requests and whatever, but in case I was. Whenever I get hired somewhere else, maybe they aren't as familiar with accommodating for disabilities. And I'm going to have that document, that living document, where I can reference it. So I think those are two things. Words of advice that I would give aspiring professional actors with disabilities.
[01:08:37] Speaker A: No, we talked about a lot of things in the.
Even though it's not yet five hours.
Come on, mackenzie.
And I.
And I would like to think that both people with disabilities and those who have yet to embrace or discover their own disabilities both watch and listen to this show, but both groups won't take away the same thing from the episode. So, as my guests, what do you hope that advocates with disabilities take away from this episode? And what do you hope that those listeners who have yet to discover or embrace their own disabilities take away from this episode?
[01:09:56] Speaker B: Yeah, well, the first thing that came to mind when you said that is, you know, most people will experience disability at some point in their life. And the sooner that people are willing to accept that, the sooner we'll all have the access that we want and the, you know, accessibility benefits everybody. I say that all the time. But easier said than done for advocates, I think, hearing that no to like. I said that no to, like, acting career paths are the same. No to two disabilities are the same. Two people with the same diagnosis don't have the same experience with that diagnosis. And so accommodation requests can't be assumed. They have to be discussed intentionally and individually with each disabled actor. And yeah, for advocates, I just think, really keeping in mind the wide range of variety amongst our communities, there's always something that we can learn and. And grow and add to the next to the next project for not just our own needs, but for the needs of. Of the people we're working with.
And I forgot the other group of people that you said, oh, I can't hear. Oh, you're muted, Keith.
[01:11:36] Speaker A: So for those who have yet to discover or embrace their own disability.
[01:11:44] Speaker B: Right, right.
Embracing your disability.
Ooh, yeah, I had a really hard time, like I said, embracing my own disability. I had a lot of relearning I had to do, but once I started to embrace it, I started to find joy again and I started to love myself again. And so I think if there's someone listening who is unfamiliar with what's happening in their body, whether it's they're on their route to diagnosis or they're resisting getting diagnosed, or for whatever reason haven't embraced what is happening within them, this is the only body that you'll get. This is in, at least in this lifetime, whatever you believe this is, this is the vessel in which your soul exists. And if you want your soul to be able to be witnessed by others, you have to take care of its vessel.
[01:12:57] Speaker A: Very well said, my friend. If someone wants to find out more about you or maybe get in touch with you, how would they do that?
[01:13:13] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I'm on all social medias pretty much. Mackenzie Morgan Gomez. It's my full name. M A K is how you start the spelling of Mackenzie for my name. There's no C in my name. That's usually the only way that people have trouble finding me. Mackenzie Morgan Gomez everywhere. Instagram, Tick tock, etc. Same with my website, mackenziemorgan gomez.com and that's. You can contact me on any of those platforms and see what I'm up to and, and see what's. What's coming next.
[01:13:46] Speaker A: Well, Mackenzie, it was such a pleasure meeting you and interviewing you and I do hope to see you again.
Working with Theta, breaking through barriers. It's a wonderful company and I don't just say that because I'm on the board and after myself. They really are New York's diamond in the rough and they couldn't pay me enough to say that so.
Because it's true, they are a very forward thinking organization and there's always something that they do that I which would be adopted by every other theater that I enter, if not more.
And so I look forward to seeing you again, my friend.
[01:15:15] Speaker B: Likewise, Keith, thank you so much for having me.
[01:15:27] Speaker A: You have been listening to Disability Empowerment Now I would like to thank my dads, you are listener and the disability empowerment team that made this episode possible.
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