[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign welcome to Disability Empowerment now season four. I'm your host, Keith Murphy Dickinsini. Today I'm talking to my friend Rain Carroll, who is a program manager at Google. Elaine, welcome to the program.
[00:00:38] Speaker B: Thank you, Keith, for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.
[00:00:43] Speaker A: So you're in Switzerland.
[00:00:49] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm here today in Zurich where it is absolutely tipping it down, making me regret that summer is over.
[00:00:59] Speaker A: Well, that, that's a good.
Well, yeah, I can actually visualize that in my head.
So before we get into your dream job at Google, a little known company that I'm sure you no one had heard of.
[00:01:26] Speaker B: No one at all.
[00:01:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
Let me pull up Chrome.
Let's get into who you are and how you found yourself to that little no name company, Known Edge Gold.
[00:01:53] Speaker B: Yeah, sure. So, I mean, I'm a woman who is at that point of life where I started lying about my age, but.
[00:02:05] Speaker A: I'm already there and I'm not.
[00:02:09] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I had, I had the big birthday this year and I identify as both disabled and neurodivergent.
So I was born hard of hearing. I have just over 50% hearing loss in both ears, but lower tones in one, higher tones in the other. So I kind of say like, I have one good ear across both of them.
So, you know, just stand, stand around me.
I'm also dyslexic.
I had chronic migraines since I was 11, so a fair few decades of those. Now in my early 20s, I developed Myalgic encephalophalitis, which is a mouthful and no one ever wants to be able to say that. I literally had to watch YouTube videos to learn how to say that. So the simpler way of saying that is actually chronic fatigue syndrome.
And then I also earlier this year was diagnosed very late diagnosis of adhd, to which all my colleagues were like, oh, yeah, that makes so much sense.
Thanks for the heads up. Everyone could have told me earlier, wow.
[00:03:30] Speaker A: That little known company, those employees know you very well.
[00:03:38] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
And then actually just the this week, I was also diagnosed with hypersomnia, which is where basically your brain tells you go to sleep all the time.
So, so there's a lot. And you know, there's a lot of overlap between ADHD and chronic fatigue and hypersomnia. So.
Yeah, yeah. So good to know. I'm not lazy and just want to sleep all the time.
So I, I'm a nice like mixed bag. As I say, like every, you know, every like five years or so, I was like, oh, let's just collect Another disability.
You can never have too many of these things.
[00:04:19] Speaker A: So did you Bella deeds like your Pokemon cards?
[00:04:25] Speaker B: They are. Yeah, just like how many can you collect? You know, some are worth more than others.
But this is such a big part of my identity now that it really has also helped for fuel my passion in life which is working in the disability inclusion space, which is something I, I started dabbling in the university and now at Google.
As well as being a program manager, which is my core role, I also have the absolute honor and privilege of being the Europe, Middle east and Africa regional league of our internal erg, the Disability Alliance.
And this is like a volunteer role, but it's really something that drives me to help support other people with disabilities, neurodivergence and mental health conditions.
Because it's not just me. Members of my family also have neurodivergence, physical disabilities and mental health conditions as well.
Spreading out pretty much everyone I know my network is this as well and you know, it's what drives me. It's my passion. Also outside of Google, I'm a purple space ambassador for PurpleSpace.org which is a wonderful DEI development hub for DEI professionals and ERG leaders as well.
So this part of my identity has just become so important to me that I, I like to do just more and more work in this space.
[00:05:58] Speaker A: Wow, so much to unpack there.
How did you, what road of roads took you to that little known company called Google?
[00:06:19] Speaker B: Actually ending up in Google was kind of an accident. It's not never anything I intended to do.
My educational background is actually in criminal justice and criminology which has nothing to do with Google.
Nothing at all.
Yeah.
So you know anyone who thinks oh I want to work for Google, but I do not have a background in computer science, there is hope. Don't worry.
You know, they look smart people job.
[00:06:56] Speaker A: Applications right now you giving me that?
[00:07:04] Speaker B: Yeah, you know I wanted to, to study serial killers. Not. Yeah, that that was my dream when I was growing up.
You know, it wasn't working at Google, although I have to say my life has, has worked out really, really wonderful and I love where I work.
But yeah, so, so it really was a bit of an accident.
My ex husband who was doing computer science and wasn't it was into computers, had a job at Google and he had the opportunity to, to move to, to Switzerland. So we took it and then I was like, well they're an English speaking company.
So before we moved he, he kind of submitted my resume for, for a job that I had a matching skill set for. And a week after I, you know, landed in Switzerland, I had a job there. So.
[00:07:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, damn.
[00:08:03] Speaker B: Yeah, that was, that was 10 years ago. And whilst I'm no longer with my husband, you know, he's a wonderful man but we just kind of grew apart in the romantic sense.
I am still with Google and still working on a fantastic product.
[00:08:20] Speaker A: The important relationship.
[00:08:24] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, the work relationship is still.
[00:08:27] Speaker A: There, yet the only relationship Alphabet cares about.
So take me in to what it is like working in such a big.
I don't know if kilomet is the right word. I mean there's that saying one world Google. And it's as someone who just uses Google products as a consumer, what is it like to use them and walk alongside them and on them on a daily basis and you don't have to be an engineer, I mean, but you're using them all the time. You're using them probably in a much more intuitive way than I am and I'd spend most of my life on a computer. But I don't work for Google yet.
Microsoft yet, Apple yet, yet I didn't even know yet its own company, but so what is it like working for such a well known company and using all their products, all of their mannerisms on, on a daily basis in such a, pardon the term, intimate way more than the everyday consumer?
[00:11:00] Speaker B: I mean I think you go through multiple emotions and I think sometimes you kind of have to almost stop thinking about how big Google is and just think, I work on this thing here and I'm just going to ignore everything else because you know, if you think about the sheer size of Google, it's just overwhelming when you think about how much we do and how big Google is because then you're just like whoa, this is so big. This is so huge.
Now I've worked actually on the same product for 10 years and that's Google Calendar. And the reason is, it's because I think it's fantastic.
[00:11:46] Speaker A: My mother would like to have a word with you.
[00:11:52] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean I think Google Calendar controls in a good positive way.
And now I know that I'm adhd. That's why I need that kind of routine. And this is happening now and this is happening now.
[00:12:11] Speaker A: We're all iPhone users, but we've grown up and grown attached to Google Calendar only.
Only flaw that we've discovered and that I'm surprised I have any hair left is that we operate in Arizona and New York and Google Calendar, but as intuitive as it is, can never seem to figure out that one of us is in both locations like my parents are right now when this episode is recording in New York.
But all of their appointments, unless we create a certain way, but that judging always work comes up in Arizona time and all my appointments come up in New York time.
And so we're all playing the time zone game of is it two or three hours differently? And then if I go to New York for a year, then all of my appointments are still on this time zone and there's no smart watch or solar power time difference.
Well, that was a long explanation of the only flaw we've encountered in Google Calendar.
You have to get me your engineers, I mean Google engineers on that.
No.
So you've worked well. That was a very long explanation. I hope no one had Google lectures and all, like, what did she say?
[00:15:18] Speaker B: But it's a fantastic product. It really is. And to be honest, I think even more than the product being actually fantastic is the people are wonderful. Like, they can be very intimidating because I work with so many smart people.
Like, you know, they're so smart.
So working at Google can sometimes be intimidating.
Being surrounded by that much intelligence, you're like, this is, this is a lot, a lot of brains in this room.
[00:15:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:49] Speaker B: But they're also wonderful as well. And you know, a lot of diverse perspectives. You've got people from all over the world.
So you know that, that's really, really interesting to be able to, to meet all of those people from, from all corners of the world. So that's, that's really, really nice as well.
[00:16:07] Speaker A: So did you get assigned Google Calendar and it's that just the relationship that stuck or did you pick it out as. I want to focus on this product and only this product.
[00:16:35] Speaker B: That was, that was the job role I applied for originally.
[00:16:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:40] Speaker B: I mean I have worked on other products over the years.
Gmail, Google Meet.
[00:16:48] Speaker A: I've never heard of any of those.
Let me pull up one of the five Gmail accounts.
[00:17:01] Speaker B: Yeah. So you know, several areas in Google Workspace.
So, you know, it's been a real pleasure to work with some amazing people in these areas as well.
And as a program manager, I wasn't always a program manager for the full 10 years previously I was an executive business partner supporting some of our directors with their job roles, which was also a really interesting job role to have.
So that was a great deal of fun. Did that for about six years before transitioning into my current job role and then getting to work on actual product launches, which is great.
[00:17:44] Speaker A: So you seem like you have your dream job and Your colleagues are vaccinating.
But as you were telling me at the beginning, there's another calling outside of Google that you're just equally if not more passionate about talking about that.
[00:18:21] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's the accessibility and disability inclusion role. And you know, one of the wonderful things Google supports with is the erg work and help, you know, helping people develop in that. So you know, I have a leadership role in that which is fantastic.
And part of that is also some, you know, external collaborations. So disability in for example purple space.
And I've been given the privilege to work with some of those external partners. So both this year and last year, I was a speaker for the disability in conferences at the global levels in the US and also more recently this month actually at the EMEA Disability in conference which Google hosted in Google island, which was a great success and a wonderful collaboration.
[00:19:13] Speaker A: Hold on, did you just say in Google Island?
[00:19:19] Speaker B: Yes, yes.
[00:19:20] Speaker A: We have judge and surprise me at all that Google Ads film Island. It's that really an island or it's just a name.
[00:19:34] Speaker B: Oh, sorry. Google Ireland is in the country.
Sorry my accent.
Oh I mean it is an island but we don't own it.
So. So in in Dublin.
Yeah, just making that very, very clear. I'm definitely not saying that Google owns an entire country here. I will very much upset the Irish people if I claim this.
Oh dear.
This is just my accent. I do apologize.
[00:20:24] Speaker A: Will be the begin. I'm about to die of life.
[00:20:33] Speaker B: Oh God. And I'm gonna kill someone. Oops.
This interview's definitely going wrong.
[00:20:39] Speaker A: Look at my name. I am actually half Irish.
So on so many levels that you so great.
You've made my entire month.
Should that one joke which would you accent and me Mitch hearing it.
But yeah okay. Google could own their own island.
I heard island, not island.
Wow.
[00:21:28] Speaker B: Maybe soon darker like a very small one.
[00:21:31] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:21:32] Speaker B: Google Dublin. We hosted in Google Dublin.
[00:21:37] Speaker A: Sorry for the comedy rage in this episode. That's just too, too good.
But okay so Google island.
So you hosted.
Well, Google hosted the.
Oh yeah.
[00:22:06] Speaker B: Organization who are a wonderful organization started in the US and you know spreading throughout the world. They you know, fantastic organization. If there's other organizations there who want to know how to improve their disability inclusion metrics for their company. Like this is. This is the organization to support businesses and how to do this.
So definitely recommend you get in touch with them.
[00:22:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
So wow.
That would share. I needed that. Thank you.
And so to talk more about the culture of go because again as a outsider who just uses the products As a consumer and you mentioned about sometimes being intimidated because there's so much brain power. Well, I think that's a normal reaction, like eggheads, super geniuses, all that. And I'm sure there are delightful people at Google take us into that culture and how important diversity and no inclusion is to the Google walk spades and work culture.
[00:24:15] Speaker B: Yeah. So, you know, we've always had a strong culture in Google. You know, I know everyone thinks, oh, like Google is fun and games. We play pool, we, you know, and if people have seen the, the movie and everything that makes it look like we don't really work and we just play.
[00:24:31] Speaker A: I'm gonna say you're talking about the intern.
[00:24:36] Speaker B: The intern. Yeah, yeah, I definitely say it's not like that. We definitely work very, very hard.
[00:24:43] Speaker A: Yeah. Vin Vaughn and Owen Wodson.
[00:24:47] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, I think everyone does work very, very hard. You know, it's impressive actually, how hard people work.
I think, kind of think we have a, a company of massive overachievers.
You know, that's, that's the type of people that we get in the company that we at Google.
[00:25:07] Speaker A: I mean, you, you see that name Google and you think, well, I better bring my triple A.
[00:25:22] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:25:27] Speaker A: Game and not judge for a weekend of weeks.
It's every single day, even if you don't get any company memos really giving that impression all.
[00:25:53] Speaker B: But, you know, but you know, we're competitive. I'm very competitive, you know, and I compete against myself. I'm not competing at my colleagues because not in the same draw role, but I've always competing against myself to try and do better.
But at the same time, you know, the company is still very, very focused on this culture of belonging. And they do put an effort in, you know, this idea of bringing your whole self to work. Now, I definitely won't say we're always getting it right. I don't think any company can say that. And I think if they are saying it, they're probably missing something because, you know, this is still a learning journey for everyone. This, this idea, especially as the concept of identities is still developing for a lot of underrepresented groups.
And, you know, different countries are at different stages of that, that, you know, development.
But Google as a whole, you know, does have a strong focus on this culture of belonging and puts a lot of effort and work into this. So we have 16 employee resource groups.
I mentioned mine. The disability alliance, there's other ones, such as the Black Google and Network, the Asian Google Network, the women at Google, you know, the Vet Network. There's a whole host of them to try and support all the different identities at Google. The ergs which I abbreviation. We do love our abbreviations of Google. The ergs also work.
Yeah, we really do.
The ergs all work together as well to you know, cover the intersections between our identities because obviously I'm not just disabled, I'm a disabled woman. So be in multiple ergs.
There's you know, a lot of intersections often between say like autism and the trans community for example. So we do, you know, we always try and work together to really strengthen those bonds and to really help people bring their whole self to work. The company also puts a lot of focus on well being and mental health because I can say we're all overachievers. We're all, you know, we want to be the best.
That takes its place toll. Right. So the company really does put a lot of resources into well being mental health by providing coaching, therapy sessions as well as all the other things you hear about such as the massage, the gyms, the food and everything to really sort of try and make sure we're supported to the best of ability to be fair.
[00:28:39] Speaker A: And I love the internship. It's a great comedy. I don't know what it's like for you, a Google employee to see that movie, but I never really thought it was anywhere close to a authentic, accurate picture of go walk culture because it romantic comedy starring two of the bigots goofball ever.
And so I really feel bad for people who, who look at that movie and think oh yeah, that's what really happens at Google.
[00:29:50] Speaker B: Yeah. No, I mean we have to be realistic here. Google is still a place of work. It's primary function is to create products and create money. Right.
Like, like any other company, we're just trying to consumers.
[00:30:09] Speaker A: Yeah. And so.
So your other pageant withdraws of links to Gore.
How do they intersect and diverge from one another?
Well, in terms of the advocacy both in and outside the walk culture.
[00:30:49] Speaker B: Yeah. So when I started at Google and Google Switzerland there were only two ergs in existence which was the woman one and the the pride one for the LGTQ plus community.
And you know, I was something like, well I'm not really having any issues as a woman, I'm having issues as a person with a disabilities. So you know, Google, I was very much empowered to just set up the erg for people with disabilities on my site. And you know we have the, the largest engineering office outside of the US so that instantly kind of allowed.
[00:31:27] Speaker A: Congratulations.
[00:31:29] Speaker B: Thank you. Yeah, I Mean, obviously I set it up right, that allowed me to like instantly have impact, not just to get the support I needed, but to also support other people. Because as we know, 80% of disabilities approximately are hidden. So I figured there were probably a lot of people like myself.
[00:31:48] Speaker A: Wait, say that again.
How Many?
[00:31:52] Speaker B: Up to 80% of disabilities are non visible disabilities.
[00:31:58] Speaker A: So let's say that a third time should to make no, because it's a very important.
You judge said up to 80, 80.
[00:32:20] Speaker B: Are non visible disabilities.
This can include physical disabilities, also neurodivergence and mental health conditions. So there's a lot of people that you meet in your everyday life that you have no idea are disabled and you know, protected by disability acts unless they choose to share it with you. So you know, and a lot of people don't wish to disclose, you know, I mean I'm based here in emea. There was a study done in the UK on white collar companies very, very similar to say Google and they found that about 90% of people would choose not to disclose to their company or not to share with their company if they were disabled for fear of retribution, negative bias, discrimination.
So you know, if you imagine that 80 are non visible disabilities and about, you know, 96 of those individuals choose not to share because they're worried about other people's perceptions and discrimination, then there's a lot of people out there potentially suffering might seem like a really harsh word, but struggling maybe because they're not, they maybe don't have a community that they feel connected to.
[00:33:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:38] Speaker B: Or you know, they're not getting the support they need. There's no peers that they, they know that they can go to to discuss things.
So you know, that's why like feeling empowered to set up the ERG in my site was such, I think a powerful movement then like I did that for a few years in my site and then then feeling empowered to become like the regional lead and actually grow our network across the region. Because you know, there were six, there's now six what we call chapters or locations in, in Europe.
There's now 25 chapters across Europe, Middle east and Africa and we're still growing and that's since 2019. 2019.
So you know, Google empowers us to do that and then like I say, then we're doing this external work so we're going to secondary schools and talking to them about disabilities and neurodivergence and mental health and giving them, because it's still seen in many countries with stigma and as a negative thing and barrier to higher education and employment. And this is, you know, this is what I was doing back when I was in university so many decades ago, about how youngsters were thinking they couldn't possibly go to university because they were disabled and neurodivergent. And I was an example of how. No, you totally can, because look at me and my fellow university students here. We're all disabled on neurodivergent and we're all at university doing that kind of work and then going to university.
And they've managed to get past that first barrier. I think, yes, I can go to university. And then they're like, I could never work for a company like Google because I'm disabled or neurotivergent or have a mental health condition. And once again, we're like, no, you can, because look at all of us. We're here. We're totally succeeding. You can too. So it's not just work we're doing to support Googlers in our community, in our company, we're also doing a lot of this experience, external outreach to youngsters to try to show to them that disability is not a dirty word. You know, we're trying to.
[00:35:52] Speaker A: No, exactly. Really? Really.
[00:35:55] Speaker B: If you can be successful with a disability, you just have to find the path that works for you.
So, yeah, I don't know if actually I answered your original question because I kind of got a bit lost in my own excitement there. Sorry.
[00:36:09] Speaker A: Well, now I feel that alone.
Rewind to the part where I'm having trouble breathing because I'm laughing so hard. Cause I mention. Heard you.
I open this episode by criticizing the product you work on.
Yeah, Anyway, it's so basic question, you've been in Switzerland for 10 years now. Where did you immigrate from?
[00:37:09] Speaker B: Yes, I am an immigrant.
I was in London for a couple of years before this. I've also lived in Manchester, in Birmingham, but I'm actually from a very tiny little village in the southwest of the uk and ironically enough, living in Switzerland actually reminds me of that small village because it was an area of outstanding natural beauty.
I grew up by the water with the moors in the background. So living in Switzerland, where I've got the Zurich lake and the. The Alps in the background, it's kind of like a slightly grander version. And so I actually feel very much at home, despite the fact that after 10 years, I still haven't mastered the German language, which is a failing on my part. But, you know, I'm dyslexic and hard of hearing. So, yeah, I'm Giving myself a break.
[00:38:04] Speaker A: I mean, don't.
Didn't Google give you a smart watch with Google Translate?
[00:38:16] Speaker B: I, I could get one of those, but I have a host of very pretty sparkly watches and I, I like wearing those instead.
[00:38:23] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I have a she bold Casio myself.
But what do you hope the people know about what it is like to work at Google being neurodivergent?
[00:39:01] Speaker B: So this is, you know, this is something I'm almost still slightly learning about myself because the dyslexia almost, in a way isn't so much of an issue for me because I learned, I guess because of my hearing, very young way, ways around this. And I should say we all use computers now. Spell checker is such a thing for me that I don't think about it. But yeah, spell checker will catch that.
And I'm actually a slightly non typical dyslexic and I love to read so much because with my hearing I had everything had to be in writing for me because I couldn't hear anything. So, you know, I, I really actually developed my hearing to a very high level, which was hard, very, very hard and took me a lot of effort when I was young.
But now, you know, it's still like, please send me everything in writing because I, I can't. I'm not gonna like, take it in. If you talk to me, I'm just gonna sit there and nod and it's just gonna fly over my head. You'll think I've taken it and I really won't.
But yeah, I think, you know what we're still like really trying to educate people on is that our brains are different.
Yeah, that, but different. And we think in different ways.
You know, like, I could create a tracker spreadsheet that my brain instantly understands and everyone else's brain looks at and goes, what the hell?
But they might be like too afraid to tell me because they're like, oh, we don't want to like be offensive.
It's not offensive to say, I'm really sorry, but I don't understand that. Can we work together to find the middle grounds? Like, and that's totally fine because I'm, I'm very much aware my brain works differently.
So yeah, like, let's work together, you know, ask questions, be, you know, be curious.
Just don't like, put the burden on me to try and fix everything because I can't help how my brain works. Like, there is no fix for my brain because like I say, it's not broken, it's just different.
Yeah, so when, when people are like, you need to fix this. You know, when it's like I need regular breaks or I need to fidget with something or, you know, like something like this, you know, some ADHD trait that I can't fix, it's like, no, I can't fix this. This is my brain now. Like, it's all, you know, it's always been my brain, but now I understand why. So it's like, no, I, I can't fix this. And I no longer prepare, prepared to almost kill myself trying, which was what I was trying to do in the past, and like, beating myself up when I was failing.
Now it's, I accept that this is, this is my brain and I'm, I'm comfortable with that.
So telling me that I need to fix it and that it's wrong and that your way is the right way is no longer acceptable.
So it's like, now let's discuss how we can meet in the middle and find a way that works for, for both of us.
Like, that is what I want people to understand.
There's nothing wrong with me. I'm not broken. I'm.
All brains are wonderful.
All brains are different.
My brain's just different in, you know, this way.
Yeah, let, let, you know, let's incorporate that perspective and find a way that works for everyone.
[00:42:29] Speaker A: So, so the image, catching criminals, I.
[00:42:36] Speaker B: Never got that far.
I was a civilian for the police, for the West Midlands Police in Birmingham for a couple of years.
The idea was to become a police officer, but as a civilian, I realized that wasn't going to work for me.
The reason being, aside from the physical disabilities, you can't tell because, you know, you can only see my face on camera.
I'm a small 5 foot 2 woman, not very big.
When I was working in a live police station as a civilian, like, you know, doing administrative work, I did not see a single criminal that the, the officers brought in that was not much bigger than me.
[00:43:25] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:43:26] Speaker B: And I was like, yeah, no, no one's going to be afraid of little old me. You know, if I try and arrest them, they're just going to be like, yeah, right, lady, no thanks.
So, you know, great respect for, you know, for the law enforcement of my country.
You know, they were, they were great people, but they also work, you know, shift works.
[00:43:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:43:49] Speaker B: And data, a lot of them had broken relationships because of it. You know, things they see that they couldn't speak to their partners about.
So I just decided it wasn't the life for me and I wanted to Go more into the academic side of things, which is why I did a master's in criminology and criminal psychology.
And I was thinking continuing that with my PhD before my health took a turn for, for the worse with one of my chronic illnesses and after, by the time I recovered from that a couple of years later and kind of got my equilibrium back, I kind of been out of that field for some time.
And it's just one of those areas that once you, you've lost track of the research, it's quite hard to get back into it.
I also was, I was planning my wedding at the time as well and, and life had happened and then the opportunity came.
Exactly. Yeah, yeah. And then, yeah, moved to Switzerland, joined Google instead, you know, became a Googler instead of, instead of a criminologist.
[00:44:58] Speaker A: So, so, so you mentioned the famous Google trades which I think everyone knows now.
What did that phrase mean to you personally?
What did that phrase mean to Google itself?
Are they like.
[00:45:33] Speaker B: I mean, I don't think I can speculate what it means to Google. I think it just means staff member.
But you know, for me it's almost a bit like an identity.
You're like my name's Elaine and I'm a Googler.
But yeah, we, we, you know, we use this Googler term like we also, you know, I don't, yeah, don't know if you're aware. A lot of people, people are but we're, you know, very dog friendly company. We, we love, we love our dogs. We bring our dogs into the company.
[00:46:09] Speaker A: My dog would love to work at Google.
She would, she would submit my resume judge to get her paw in the tool.
[00:46:25] Speaker B: Well, well the dogs also get badgers and we call them Douglas.
[00:46:33] Speaker A: My dog is going to literally sign up.
[00:46:41] Speaker B: Yeah, so, so yeah, so we know we have Googlers and we have Googlers and then spouses of Googlers are spooglers.
So you know, so it becomes like, it becomes like an identity, like part of your family.
[00:47:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean the, the comedy of the internship would involve in some cases.
But no, I mean that, I mean all walk and all play, but all play in a walk.
It seems like there's a balance and that's very important to a big juggernaut company such as Google.
And so in case there are any aspiring advocates legioning who want to pursue career in Google, what would be some advice you would give them?
[00:48:14] Speaker B: Let's. That's a hard one because I think it depends on what area they want to, to go into.
You know, obviously after the last couple of years. The, the tech industry has been difficult in, in the hiring world. You know, a lot of, not just Google but a lot of tech industries have not been hiring a post Covid and instead, you know, been letting stuff go. So, so for anyone who really wants to get into tech company, I think you have to be willing to be maybe flexible on location at the moment.
Certain offices are hiring, but they're maybe not the main ones that you might want to go to.
So if you'd be willing to be flexible in location, I think that's certainly going to be useful.
Maybe think about getting a mentor and a coach to prepare yourself for underrepresented groups such as like women or individuals of color. I think actually Google does offer some specific programs around this.
So you know, look, look into this. You can Google it.
[00:49:31] Speaker A: Well, I'm, I'm surprising teaching that warm in the episode for one of us.
[00:49:44] Speaker B: You know, we have, you know, we have internship programs every year. So you know, if you're still at university, you know, apply for our internship programs. These are a great way of understanding if you know, this is a company that, that suits you because not all company, you know, yes, you're a great name and yes, I think we're a great place to work, but not all companies suit you. And that's not, that's not a bad thing. You know, you have to find the right fit for you.
So an internship is a great way for you to try out a company if you're, you know, if you're still in the university area and see if it's the right fit for you and get a taste of it, get a taste of the culture, get a taste of working on products and see if that's right for you. Because maybe a big company isn't, maybe a smaller company company actually is, is a better fit for, for an individual and, and see if you can speak to some individuals. I know we have at Google what we call a champion program.
So like if you are from an underrepresented group and you're going through the hiring process, you can ask to speak from, to somebody from that underrepresented group and get to have an honest conversation from somebody with that group. So like I'm a disability champion.
So you know, someone can say I want to speak to somebody who's disabled or neurodivergent and they will actually then connect you to someone or who's already working in the company who could, then you can ask questions too and see, you know, again if, because recruiters, you know, might tell you anything, but you can actually go and speak to somebody who's already working there for like an honest, frank conversation. And that's completely private between you and that individual. Like your creatures don't know what you're asking or you know, what answers you're going to get. And again, see if actually the culture and everything is the right fit for you because you're interviewing the company as much as they're interviewing you. So it has to be the right fit because there's no point going after the brand name if actually it's not going to work for you.
And then in terms if you're disabled or neurodivergent individual, maybe also again, if you have the ability, ability to be flexible in your location, also check out the disability laws and protections in your area. For example, you know, America has the ada, which is great. Germany has some really great protections for people with disabilities. And neurodivergence, you know, you can get certificated and that gives you extra protection. Same with France.
So, you know, look at the countries you're going to and where they are on their level of understanding of things around like neurodivergence, if that, you know, if you identify that way.
Because if you're going to a country that doesn't really understand this and doesn't have the healthcare infrastructure that you need, I know you might want to work for Google, there might even be a great job there.
But if you're not going to have the medical support, et cetera, that you need, it's not worth you and your health just to try and get a job. It just really isn't. So yeah, those would be my off the top of my head advice thinking.
[00:52:51] Speaker A: So we've talked about a lot of topics, shared a few laps to.
I like to think that both advocates with disabilities and those who have yet to discover our embrace their own disabilities listen and watch this program.
I'm not naive enough to think that both groups or groups within those groups take away the same things from every episode.
So as my guess, what do you hope that advocates with disabilities take away from the this episode? And what do you hope that those who have yet to discover or embrace their own disabilities take away from this episode?
[00:54:10] Speaker B: Maybe I'll start with those who have yet to embrace a disability.
[00:54:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:54:17] Speaker B: In a way that's almost the easier one.
You know that look, deciding to embrace your disabilities and share that, that's very much a journey and a process.
To be honest, I didn't even consider myself disabled until I got my chronic illnesses. You Know, my dyslexia and my hearing impairment, that was just so much a part of me that even though I faced discrimination about it and I had blockers in education due to.
Was just so much fundamental. Like, I didn't even consider it as a disability until, like, I learned more about what disability was and what, you know, it entailed. You know, when I was older and then I was like, actually, yeah, no, I understand this better.
But, yeah, I would just say it's not a dirty word. It's, you know, yeah, great community out there to support you. And you'll never get the support and accommodations you need until you start embracing it. That doesn't mean you have to, like, go to the highest hill and start screaming it at the top of your life.
You don't have to do this. You can be quietly, you know, have quiet inner disability, confidence in yourself, and then, you know, just tell who you need to tell to get those accommodations to get that support. You know, you don't have to be, like, waving a flag around it, but it's a part of your identity. It's a part of who you are. And you should. You have the right to be proud of all of yourself, not just pick and choose little parts. Like, this is a part of you, and it's a wonderful part of you. It won't always be pretty, it won't always be easy, but, you know, you have that right to. To embrace it and be proud of it and be, you know, it bring it out.
And quite often, disability, even the hard parts, bring strength. Even my chronic illness.
Do I love it? No. Would I? If there was a cure for it, I'd take it. Would I never have had it? Not at all. Because it's taught me resilience, it's taught me empathy. It's taught me to embrace and enjoy the, you know, smaller things in life that I might never have done. And to be fair, I've done so much more amazing things since I've had a chronic illness than I ever did before, because I've learned to really value life so much more and to make the most of it. So, you know, think about these things and think about what it means to you and try, you know, try and embrace your inner disability confidence.
There's a lot of great resources out there and a lot of great groups you can connect with, LinkedIn, etc.
So I really do encourage that to advocates really, really encourage you to just to continue their great, you know, your great work and to also continue the intersectional work as well.
Disability, you know, disabled people are the biggest underrepresented group. And we touch every single group that is, you know, like, there's no one who is going to be free from the potential of being disabled. Old age alone gives us potential of being disabled. Right.
So, you know, think about the intersections. Think about working with other groups to embrace those. You know, I saw on LinkedIn the top 10 voices in disability, which is great. But one thing I noticed is that they were all white individuals.
[00:57:45] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:57:48] Speaker B: And it's like some of these people are fantastic. I follow some of them myself. But yeah, you should also be trying to embrace and amplify other voices and other perspectives and, you know, diverse perspectives. So really try and partner with people with other perspectives. People of color, you know, people of other sexualities, etc. Other regions, other cultures, you know, and really try and amplify those voices as well because they bring some so much.
You know, it shouldn't just be the white perspective. You know, we have that privilege and it's great to be. You know, one of the reasons why I do this is because I'm aware of my privilege and I'm trying to use my voice so that people who are unable to use their voice, like, the burden gets taken off them a little bit. So that, you know, I. Not, not that I'm trying to speak for them, but I'm just trying to like, use my privilege a little bit. But I'm always looking for opportunities to work with other people of other perspectives, try and amplify their voice as well. And that's really something we have the opportunity to do.
[00:58:55] Speaker A: Elaine, I hope you come back.
Could that interview you did. I did call you Eileen.
[00:59:12] Speaker B: I mean, aen people call me everything. Don't worry.
[00:59:15] Speaker A: I always answer. Yeah, yeah.
Wow.
[00:59:24] Speaker B: Hey, you got through nearly a whole hour. Don't worry.
[00:59:27] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, whatever you do it now.
I really have enjoyed this episode. I really hope we get to do it again.
You always have a platform, even if you're not telling me trade secrets about Google.
If Google legendary nod. I've tried my badge and she's unbreakable, this one. And so. That's a good boy.
But in old series Mid Queen's comeback, you would such a delight to talk to, to joke around with.
I've. I've.
I don't think that much in our interview before. It's very refreshing.
[01:00:37] Speaker B: I'm happy to come back anytime.
[01:00:40] Speaker A: My dog really is salivating for me to sign up for Google because she wants to be a dog, that community more than I do. Which is surprising because she doesn't have a Gmail account yet.
[01:01:06] Speaker B: Yes, exactly.
[01:01:08] Speaker A: She would.
Yeah.
But Google if you're listening and I hope you all Google Calendar. It's fascinating. It's beautiful.
Wonderful product.
My only witch.
And I'd say vig on behalf of the Irish people.
Keep your hands all Ireland.
Have a wonderful week, my friend. And I hope we talk again very, very soon. You're always welcome here and I hope we do get to meet fates. To fates. One of these dads. Thank you so much for coming on.
[01:02:05] Speaker B: Thank you so much, Keith. It's been so wonderful.
[01:02:08] Speaker A: Take care.
[01:02:10] Speaker B: Bye.
[01:02:20] Speaker A: You have been listening to Disability Empowerment Now. I would like to thank my dads.
You are listener and the disability empowerment team that made this episode possible.
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