Lights, Camera, Inclusion: Redefining Hollywood with Kurt Yaeger & Jordan Hogg

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome to Disability Empowerment now season four. I'm your host, Keith Mafigi Ginsini. And today I'm talking to friends of the show Cut Yeager and Jordan Hogg. Gentlemen, welcome back to the program. [00:00:34] Speaker B: Thanks for having me, Batman. [00:00:36] Speaker C: Sorry, Kurt. It's good to be back. Good to see you boys. [00:00:39] Speaker B: I just realized something. You know, Jordan's last name is Hog and my last name is Jaeger, which translates to Hunter. So it's like Hog Hunter as a team. [00:00:52] Speaker C: Nice. [00:00:57] Speaker A: So, yeah, it's amazing to me that we only met, what, a year ago? And it feels like we've known each other our entire lives. Good. Of course, I've been a fan of yours for years because I've been watching, watching you without really knowing it. Are you going to be on NCIS Origins? [00:01:33] Speaker B: Well, I'd love to be. That would be my fifth ncis. [00:01:39] Speaker A: You have to fulfill my live dream of being on every iteration of ncis. I have to live the kids leave to you. [00:01:57] Speaker B: I mean, look, I, I love it because, like, this is a campaign that we all can do if, if every single person is listening. We all wrote. Even if you guys wrote, you know, CBS and said, hey, I want to see Kurt Yeager as a main character in the origin story and they get, you know, 30, 40 letters. It doesn't sound like a lot, but that represents a statistical like 10,000 people of like a view if they get those letters. So you guys can make it happen. Like I. Or, or I could write 30 letters myself as different people and send them from different locations. [00:02:34] Speaker A: Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I wonder how many letters it would take me to get catched in a Marvel movie. Something I don't obvious dream about at all. [00:02:58] Speaker C: We could rustle someone up, if there's a lot, get together and get a, get our, our teams together. We'll soon have you on there, Keith. [00:03:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I think we would have a better chance of getting a American Doctor who Richards Sac Religions. By the way. American Doctor who. American James Bond. [00:03:26] Speaker B: I like it. [00:03:28] Speaker C: You can have Dr. O' Keefe, but I'm not sure about Bond. That's like, that's, that's treasured territory that you can't stray into that thing. [00:03:36] Speaker B: I think, I think there should be a Bond from like Georgia. Like James Bond. James. I'm James Bond. They haven't. You know what I mean? Like, I think that that should be James Bond from the South. [00:03:51] Speaker C: Oh, dear. [00:03:54] Speaker B: Well, this is, this is a really interesting point that you're making without making it, that the, the disabled community is fractured in its support of professionals with disabilities in Hollywood. Like, Jordan's been a director and directing so many projects, so many things he writes, he's brought projects to networks and is getting them, like, in the process of being sold. And because we don't have a massive following, because Jordan doesn't have a half a million followers, he can't, like, get it over the line, and neither can I. It's because, like, you know, I'll call up, like, an organization, for instance, with a friend of mine who has als, and that organization's. Well, like, well, we're not going to support the thing in Hollywood because we don't understand it. You know, like, they're like, we want to support you, Kurt, but you don't have als. You have a missing leg. I'm like, yeah, but the disabled community needs to support the disabled community. [00:04:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:52] Speaker B: And what ends up happening is we don't have the juice in Hollywood to then change the societal narrative. [00:04:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:59] Speaker B: And so we get the same crappy characters with the same crappy storylines, and Jordan and I have to work on those because we need to feed ourselves. So we'll take jobs. But we're like, everyone. We should. We should do, you know, a big thing where Jordan gets a half a million followers, and then you would see TV show after TV show. But we need to really support each other in this endeavor. [00:05:25] Speaker C: Yeah. This is the only way we're going to actually make any dents in the thing if we all push in the right direction. But it's going to take us all to do it together as well, I think. [00:05:35] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And I mean, it stretches both. All the countries that participate in entertainment of any type, which is basically the entire world. [00:05:54] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, there's. There's like a. For instance, if I had the half a million followers or maybe a million, Jordan could present me as a lead character in something he wrote. And even if it was in the uk, it would get made because they're like, well, look at. There's eyeballs on this guy. The disabled community, which just in America has 57 million of us. So all I need is 500,000 of that. What's that, 1%? [00:06:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:23] Speaker B: Let's go, team. [00:06:25] Speaker A: Yeah. It's incredible. And so what are you two doing nowadays since we last talked? [00:06:40] Speaker C: Going after you, Kurt, because I'll be rattling on for a while because I've been mad busy. [00:06:44] Speaker B: Oh, no, no, no. Go ahead, man. Are you saying I'm not busy? What are you saying? Look at this. [00:06:49] Speaker C: Well, I keep trying to get you, brother. I Keep trying to get you on board. It's. [00:06:54] Speaker B: He's so busy, but he hasn't called me to come work. [00:07:00] Speaker C: I can't afford you. [00:07:05] Speaker B: Peanuts. Just a bag of peanuts. [00:07:09] Speaker C: Well, I don't think it's been a while since we talked. I don't know if I did. Did I do All Creatures Great and Small last time we spoke, Keith, Because I know that's. That's come out over there in the us that's come on pbs. I did the Christmas special of that and I've been. I did a block of a show here called Casualty recently and a kid show I've just done. Then I'm doing a big show over here. I don't know if you guys get it up there. It's called Brassic. It's very similar to Shameless, but it's huge over here. It's like comparison with the Crown is number one on Netflix over here. It's got the guy out of the guy who played the vampire on Preacher Joe Gilgan in it. It's very big show. I'm moving on to that next. But it's. It's hell of a number. So I'm currently working on that at the moment. And I've got one or two things right, bit of writing bubbling away that I'm working on with my American team over there. So progress is being made. I'm. I'm very lucky because I'm. I'm working every. Every more or less every day now till the end of May, which is quite unheard of in this business. So I'm. I'm a very lucky boy. Bribery pays off, kids. [00:08:18] Speaker A: Yes, I know, I know. I. Yeah, I'm. Right now I'm approaching a big birthday, actually at the end of this month when this episode is recorded, it's judge the beginning of October. The birthday is the 30th. And I have this goal that no one cares about but me. This season is 40 episodes of the main season plots, the pre season and the post season. But the main season, I'm gonna wrap up all the 40 episodes by the end of the month and then I'm gonna extend all the episode content. So this will be the only Never say never or Never say only anything. But right now, it's going to be the only year and a half season that we do total, probably in total over 60 episodes spread out to a year and a half. [00:10:07] Speaker B: Nice. [00:10:08] Speaker A: Because again, that's just all I dream about, all I think about. I love talking to people, I love interviewing them, and I love what I do and I'm lucky enough to get paid for it. But when you're starting up a non profit based on the same angle, you had to have this back catalog to attract investors who don't usually go for the smaller ventures yet. But I've only been doing that for three, three and a half years almost. And at the end of this season, if you put the bonus content in, it will be over 125 hours of content which usually shows get you in their fifth, sixth, maybe even seventh year. But I'm a walk heart and it's just, I love what I do, same as what you two do. [00:11:56] Speaker C: You knock it out the park, Keith. You've nailed it, man. Did you say, did you say you're coming up to 30? [00:12:02] Speaker B: 30, 30th birthday. [00:12:05] Speaker C: I had a problem when I was coming up to 30. I didn't like the idea of it. But now I've got to 40, I think it, I don't really, I don't really care about anything anymore. [00:12:13] Speaker B: How old are you, Jordan? [00:12:15] Speaker C: 41. [00:12:17] Speaker A: Well, see, I'm coming up on that age. My birthday is October 30th. [00:12:28] Speaker B: Run away, Keith. Run away from the birthday. Run back. [00:12:32] Speaker A: Yeah, well, genetics and when you have the higher than normal voids, you would be shocked how many people get a call from me or call me and they hear the name and they still call me man. [00:12:58] Speaker B: And I'm like, you sound like an old Jewish New York lady. Is that what you're saying? What are you talking about, Keith? Is this kind of how you sound, Keith? I don't tell you ladies I have a problem with my sewer. [00:13:19] Speaker A: I don't know where you got sewage from. They just call me ma' am. Like if I didn't already know my gender orientation, I would be hella confused. Because it's like if I had a nickel for every time I've been called ma' am. Obvious it's like, and who, what parents name their daughter Keith? Yeah, I mean like. [00:14:07] Speaker B: Your parents were really messed up on the flip side of things, Keith. [00:14:12] Speaker C: When, when I came over to Kurt last year, my friend I came up with, they were getting on the flight and she said watch this, I'm going to get an upgrade. And she walked to the check in desk and the lady on the check in guest immediately called my friend sir when she's clearly a woman. So I said, right, you're giving me a free upgrade to first class then that's hilarious. [00:14:36] Speaker A: I mean if we didn't have facial hair, it's like because that's a dead giveaway. But it's like, even when I spell out my name, it's like, what kind of cognitive dissonance do you have to. Have to misidentify that name? I mean, Jordan can be a unisex name. Alex can. Michael, Kurt, Kyle, Keith, Kevin. Bye. Try to unisex those names you gave you, Sam. But I mean, have you ever seen a guy see, yo, my name is Samantha. [00:15:47] Speaker B: Yeah, her name's Samantha. Yeah. If I said that everybody like, all right, your name's Samantha. [00:15:56] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, James, you. Yeah, you can really state on that. But I mean, it's. And I like it all now because it used to be a lot more annoying than it. Well, now. [00:16:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I see. Here's the thing. I always get confused or get confused at, like, people confusing me, especially in the industry. Actually, only in the industry, I identify as an actor, but I'm only a disabled actor to every single person in this town. Go figure. Like, I think I'm just an actor, but to them, I'm just a disabled actor. [00:16:44] Speaker C: I'm a disabled director. Apparently. I only direct things with disabled characters in. [00:16:49] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I mean, don't you only direct inspirational porn? [00:16:57] Speaker C: Yeah, effectively. Yeah. [00:16:59] Speaker A: It's like, oh, by the way, that's real praise for anyone who. Who doesn't know that. [00:17:11] Speaker B: I think, I think. I think we just came up with our new feature film, Jordan. We could film this really, really cheap. Here's what it is. You're a director, right, in this movie. So you have to actually make an appearance in the movie, but you're also directing it. You're a director directing an American disabled actor in a piece that's not about disability, disabilities. But through all the networks notes, the studio notes, and the entire executive team and all the journalists, we get pushed more and more and more into making a, you know, disability porn, like, movie. And we're like, no, we don't want to make this garbage. [00:17:52] Speaker C: You know, I mean, where do I sign? If there's anybody listening want to chip in, there'll be a producer. Give somebody. [00:18:01] Speaker B: I'll look at. Let me, let me. Actually, this is a really good idea. Let's get two American writers and two Brit writers with me and you and us six get together and say, look, all we have to do is write, you know, 15 five minute scenes. [00:18:21] Speaker C: Yeah, let's play. [00:18:23] Speaker B: Well, that only gets us to 80. So, okay, 20 minutes or, you know, 15 or 5. 5. 15 minutes or whatever it is. [00:18:29] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. [00:18:31] Speaker B: Well. [00:18:31] Speaker C: Well, we don't have to do some 15. 15 minutes long. And they'd say, that was inspirational enough. Wouldn't. [00:18:37] Speaker B: Could be. It could be really funny. See, look, this whole conversation is leading that way. Like, I want to make stuff that people, like, get pissed off about. Like, I want to make people think and shove this stuff down their throat and go, hey, you know, like, go eat a bag of dicks, you assholes. You know, like. Like what? Well, like, how many. How long? Like, look, here's the thing. I would say, Jordan, we. We have probably the most collective ability to push something like that through me. We made a film like that for like 250 or 500. We could. We could find investors for that and then go out and make a giant stink. And, like, that's a really interesting thing. See, you see, like. Yeah, I. I like this conversation, Keith. [00:19:31] Speaker C: I think this is. I think this is kind of what we need to do. We need to like, make a kind of. You. This is the problem. Shine it at them. Yeah. [00:19:40] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, they would judge this show that closed on Broadway called How to Dance in Ohio, and it was this musical about artistic teens transitioning from their teenage years to young adulthood and preparing for college, learning social skills. And there's all the prejudices of other people ran through that show of vidsid's. What it's really like. No, we're not making any of vids up. Vincent's really annoying. Vincent's daily existence. And it's like inspiration porn is a real term coined by the late disability activist Stella Young. It's not a gimmick. It's anything regarding destroy or meme that trivializes disability in whatever way to make the viewer or reader feel good about themselves at the. Add the part of the person with a disability. It's like. It's the opposite of what this program does. It's like vids. It's a teaching tool. If people want to legend of it or view it in. Be inspired by it, great. That's. That's on them. Though I don't do these episodes with that mindset in mind. I. I do it to bring other people in to the Lord into the culture, which, I mean, this is why comedians with disabilities are becoming more and more prominent because people love to laugh and humor. It's a great barrier breaker. Barrier breaker. Bach to really put past the stigma and make people relate and get them uncomfortable. [00:23:13] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. That's the big. That's the big point that we're making here. [00:23:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:17] Speaker B: Is that, you know, on. In film and television, less than 0.5% of characters actually have a disability. Like. Like, the actors, right. Are played by him. And so if society isn't being influenced by film and television, characters with disabilities being normal people. Right. Like, Jordan living in a great relationship, having a career, has a son that's into soccer and really cool stuff. Right? Like, all this cool stuff. Like, and he's a cool guy from, like, a rough neighborhood, and he just going about his normal life. If that was a movie, it would be Jordan hug. Disabled man has wife. Lucky him. Oh, a son. Can he handle it? And a job. What's he gonna do when, like, he's like, I'm crushing it. What are you talking about? Like, that's every single movie and every single character. So society is being programmed that we are all a bunch of incapable people. [00:24:23] Speaker A: Yeah. On the flip side of super crap. [00:24:30] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:24:32] Speaker A: Like, Jordan could be going out to the store to buy a bottle of vodka, and people would think that. So inspiring. I'm going to get hammered. You think that's inspiring? [00:24:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:54] Speaker A: Wow. I didn't know the ball would set so unbearably low that and Fire Ant could leap over it. [00:25:11] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:25:13] Speaker B: I'm writing this all down. This is what I'm doing. I'm not. Oops. I'm not texting. I have my notes, and I'm literally writing the movie. Inspiration porn. Like, love it. [00:25:25] Speaker C: I. I can literally get. I can get two fantastic writers on board within the next day. [00:25:31] Speaker B: And. And it's literally called, you know, the original ip. Like, instead of intellectual property, it's inspiration porn. Yes. [00:25:40] Speaker A: And I think Stella Young would appreciate that. The irony of that title, it's just so amazing. [00:25:57] Speaker C: We can officially become Pawn Stars. [00:26:01] Speaker B: Oh, I love it. [00:26:02] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:03] Speaker B: Well, if you. If you Google this right now, you could type Kurt Jager and Porn for women. I did a. I did a book a few years ago. [00:26:15] Speaker A: Wait, what? [00:26:17] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So you Google it and you'll see what you see. It's not. It's not what you think, but it's also, you know, I'm Googling Gordon's going for it. Like, you know. Yeah, that's. That's true. It's very true. It's a. A book I did. I had a couple of the books around somewhere. It's like a. A parody book about, like, what kind of porn women really want. [00:26:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:48] Speaker B: And there's some funny images and whatnot. And, like. [00:26:52] Speaker C: Well, I'll tell you what's called Kyeger Nude. [00:26:55] Speaker B: Yeah, I do have nude. I have done full frontal in a couple of shows. So, you know, I'm just saying that. [00:27:06] Speaker A: That old jokes inside. That's amazing that. Because that represents right there. [00:27:22] Speaker B: I mean, I'll represent Will. [00:27:28] Speaker A: All indebted to you. God. But all jokes aside, if you think about the culture mindset over the world that disability is often equated with two other D words, disease or death. And disability. It's not a bad word. Disability is sexy. I wrote a paper in school called the desirability of disability. It's. But I mean, if you think about the culture mindset of looking at a disabled body as either a man or a woman and finding that attractive or appealing in any way, shape or form, and to have big studio execs actually want to film that in relationship. [00:28:59] Speaker B: Well, I think that's. I think, I think that's a key problem that every single organization that deals with Hollywood and every single advocate who's trying to make Hollywood or any film and entertainment. I say Hollywood like the entertainment business. [00:29:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:20] Speaker B: The entertainment executive. This is what I've been working on with my foundation xa, where we've been raising money to actually make our own projects. And I mean a lot of money. We're not raising like we want five and $10 from everybody, but we're raising $10 million. So that's what we're going for. The crazy thing is everyone makes the mistake of saying those executives should make X, Y and Z. That director without a disability should make xyz. The writer without a disability should make X, Y and Z. The casting director without a disability should make xyz. The agent who doesn't have as a disability needs to pitch their disabled actor as xyz. None of that can happen. None of the executives are disabled for the most part. So there's never going to be any representation changes in the film business unless we do it. And that's it. That's it. Everyone keeps expecting the CEO who's not disabled to change policies that are pro disabled. Unless you have a disabled CEO or that CEO has a family member that has a disability, nothing can change. [00:30:38] Speaker A: Yeah. Why would the CEO, why would the executive change a policy procedure. [00:30:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:51] Speaker A: That they know nothing of very little about. I mean it. It's not like magical thinking is going to judge. [00:31:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, like for instance, like I. What? Like for me it's. I have the unique perspective of, of. Of being non disabled and obtaining my disability. [00:31:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:18] Speaker B: However, I also have a unique pre disability life where I was a professional athlete. [00:31:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:28] Speaker B: So I'm not an athletic guy. Right. Like I am a Professional all day long, 16 hours a day. I live, breathe and eat athleticism. That's what I do. And then I go from that to being disabled and how I'm treated and the rest of it afterwards enlightened me to a full understanding not of being a below Nathany amputee and the limitations it has on me compared to, like, disabilities Jordan knows we call this a paper cut. It's nothing. It's just one little limb. Like, I can do everything. But what happens to me is because I went down to like, the bottom of physical capability, right? Not being able to walk, having a broken back, broken pelvis, the whole thing. Traveling around in a wheelchair for six to nine months, understanding what my friends go through means that I think about, like, for instance, in my own house, I'm like, okay, how do I build the front steps into a ramp? What do I do? I need to make it beautif beautiful, but I need to make it so that people can come in, okay, my back area. When I built my pool, how is it going to be that I'm gonna have a wheelchair, like, accessible Rant. What am I going to do? Well, maybe I'll make it just roll in a bowl, right? Like the whole thing. So I'll buy two wheelchairs that can go in the water and I don't care about. So people can transfer and just go in. And people think, oh, well, you're going to spend all this extra money? And I go, I'm going to spend maybe a percent, 1% more. One maybe, if not half a percent, almost nothing. In order to gain 20% more of the population to have access to my property. Well, if that was thinking about it from like a film, television perspective or anything else, mate, if I was a CEO, I'd be crushing business. [00:33:21] Speaker C: But what's, what's the. I don't get a lot of the logic in the film business. Like, they'll, they'll fly an actor's family first class around the around, around the world. But they're opening an iron about putting a ramp in or a wider doorway in a set because. [00:33:36] Speaker B: Well, because they don't see that it's valuable. And it's. Here's the reason. There's like five reasons, right? But one is they're not disabled. So they don't know what the value is of inclusion. Okay? So. And they never will. They never will get it. So everyone who's listening who's disabled, they will never get it. It's a brutal, rough thought to put in your brain. However, it's true. But if you know the rules of the game now, you can play it properly. So that's true. But the other thing is that our community isn't supporting people with disabilities. What's like if Keith, if I. You're a very involved person, tell me five different companies that are making really useful products. Not disabled products, just like T shirt companies that are disabled owned. We even have a hard time naming them. So we're not supporting our own through business. Right. We're buying able bodied garbage. Like, so if we're not even doing it, how are we going to expect that the networks do it for us if they don't know that our community is going to come together and actually give a shit? Because they don't care. They're not in the business of charity. Right. They're in the business of making money. And if we could get together the disabled community, even if we got, you know, 10% of the American population with disabilities to say we'll watch everything and back up disabled people, that's 5.7 million people. I should have 5.7 million followers just from disabled people. But I don't. Why, like, why don't we support each other? It's crazy. [00:35:23] Speaker A: Yeah, it's amazing. And that's, I mean, you want to be shocked. [00:35:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:34] Speaker A: But when you look at the landscape of entertainment and it's made progress. But like, and I'm not trying to shed on diversity here, but every time the diversity month come up, people think it's African American voices, queer voices, Latino voices, which again is diversity. But again, there's this meme that's saying if you exclude disability from diversity, you're doing it wrong. [00:36:36] Speaker B: Right. And well, I think into your point specifically, like I grew up in a non white neighborhood, right. So when I hear diversity for let's say African Americans or black people, whatever you want to call it, I don't care. What's really interesting is they're like, oh, I want to have someone in the room who has this much melon in their skin. Right. And what that's like the, the way that it's presented, but the way that it really should be is like, I want other cultures, I want other cultural representation. So if I have someone who went to Harvard and grew up super rich and is black, that's not the same as having a guy or a gal who came out of a bad neighborhood, who has a different culture and is still intelligent and can write to that. [00:37:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:19] Speaker B: Like that's the kind of inclusion. So because we think of it as a Skin color. We can't see the value of disabilities because disability is the same thing as like black or Latino culture or gay culture or whatever it is. It's a different way of looking at something, not just the color of skin. So if you think about it, the different way of looking at something culture, that means you can value disabled culture because you've approached DEI A correctly, because you're considering culture is valuable. [00:37:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:52] Speaker B: Which is culture is, you know, equals a different perspective. And so you're like, what's your perspective on this? What's your perspective on it? And, and I call that like the God part perspective. Right. And how I explain it is, let's say there's a street going this way and a street going this way. Like for audiences, I'm saying north to south and then east to west or west to east. Right. So you have it like coming into a cross section and at the intersection of those lines you have one person standing on a corner and then the other corners another person and another corner is another person. So you have four people total on each corner and there's a car wreck. Each one of those people is going to see the same thing differently because they're going to have different information. And so it's collecting the whole information to get a better perspective. [00:38:47] Speaker A: And it's by going back to what you said about having charged some full frontal nudity. It's like Willow guides. I Vince, if we were all at a pub we would be using very different language. But it's like I, I want to appreciate the revolutionary move on the company on the channel show for wanting to put your body disabled and all watching or whatever. [00:39:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:46] Speaker A: Out there. Because again, the last interview I did with you and I talk about you a lot. I talk about that interview a lot. And like if you want to see a total bromance, what did happen. And if I ever needed a fire lid under my ads on why you should really do video casting in addition to podcasting, look at that episode. But like your viewpoint and the way you've evolved, pose your preventional athlete life into your graded chapter. And the, the article where you say I forget the exact wording but I want to be the crippled smart ads or cripple bad. It's like, oh yeah, yeah, I said. [00:41:15] Speaker B: I said it was in the Guardian. I think it was the. And I said I don't care if you call me a one legged bastard yet. And that was saying, I just care that you give me a call. Like, call like use whatever fucking language you want to Use about my disability. I don't give a fucking flying shit. Give me a call. I will show up. I will crush the role. I will do a good job. Just give me a call. As opposed to. Give me a call and be like, oh, I'm so worried about. Let's write some really interesting stuff together. Yeah, let's do some really interesting stuff together. Get rid of all these, like, societal, like, fears about language, which are important, but only if you have bad intentions. If you have good intentions and use bad language with me, I don't care. All I care about is making something interesting and pushing the boundaries. That's all Jordan cares about. Like. Like, my perspective of becoming disabled is different than Jordan's, right? Different than yours. So I come to Jordan, go, look, you've been directing, you've been writing. You're doing all kinds of crazy cool shit. What? What? Tell me your perspective. And he's like, this, this, this, this. I'm like, okay, let me adjust my perspective to add in this new information. And then he goes off and comes up with questions for me, and he's like, what about this? And now we're coming up, like, with a better form of how to approach the industry, because we have more perspectives. And that's what's so important, is getting the audience of your show, Keith, to understand that they have to follow me and they have to follow Jordan, and they have to tell every single person they know. Do me a favor. Do me this one favor. Call every single person you know with a disability and every single one of their friends and say, can you just go on your Instagram? Just Instagram, not Facebook, nothing else, and just follow Kurt Yeager real quick. Just give him a follow. Follow Jordan Hogg. Just give him a follow. We're going to get him to a. Get him both to a half a million followers just in the disabled community alone. And then that way they can go and go to any network and make any TV show, because all the disabled community came together and gave us a little tiny piece of their power. And we say, jordan and I will go and use that power, and we will swing it like a big bat when we walk into a room of his group full of network executives, and we'll make some really awesome television. [00:43:46] Speaker A: Yeah, let's go. [00:43:47] Speaker B: You know what I mean? [00:43:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:49] Speaker B: Right, Jordan? I mean, I'll let you talk a. [00:43:51] Speaker C: Little bit, but I'm down, baby. Yes. I'm all in. [00:43:57] Speaker B: Jordan's all in, man. Like, we've had great conversations about this subject, and I'm telling You. I mean, like, I don't know how we could come up with the idea, but maybe we just have like a one more podcast where we start off and it's just 20 minutes talking about this one subject, saying, look, this entire podcast is dedicated to everyone reaching out to Kurt Yeager, reaching out to Jordan, and reaching out to every one of your friends. Maybe we do a live event or. [00:44:26] Speaker C: Shout outs to everybody who follows us. [00:44:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:29] Speaker B: Yeah. Maybe we do a. A live one and say, listen, everyone, follow everyone on here. And that's what we do. And we do it over and over and over until we get to a half a million followers so that the networks understand that they want to see Jordan direct episodes. [00:44:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:46] Speaker B: Really big things that have nothing to do with disability. [00:44:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:50] Speaker C: Everyone who follows us will give a shout out and they can ask us any question they like. [00:44:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:00] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I like that. I mean, that's, you know, I mean, maybe it's a campaign, Keith, where we reach out to every disabled organization and every disabled charity and say, listen, we're doing a campaign. We want to come on, like, use you, Keith, as like, the host. Come on a live event with their social media channels. [00:45:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:24] Speaker B: And we just co host this and say, listen, we're doing a campaign where we're going to do a half hour on your Instagram page and we get on there and talk about film and television and disabilities, and everyone's job is to follow it. [00:45:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:39] Speaker B: So that's what we do. Like, we do that, you know, twice a week for an hour. [00:45:44] Speaker A: Yeah. And, yeah, it's worthwhile. And people don't know that that little sliver of power of follow on Instagram, a follow on YouTube. Those matter a lot more than the vanity. Oh, I have 1.5 million followers. [00:46:16] Speaker B: Yeah. I. Look it. I. I have. [00:46:18] Speaker A: No one really cares about the vanity aspect. [00:46:25] Speaker B: Right. I mean, this is how bad I am at it. I have my. Like, I just went on there. What are we, September 30th? [00:46:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:34] Speaker B: My last post was August 15th. Like, that's how, like, bad I am at it. But, like, I have 20. 20.7. 20, 000 followers. Right. And that's good, right? I guess. I don't know. I don't give a. Like, I'm very friendly on there, but, like, I'm not, like, doing it for vanity. I'm not doing it to be like, ooh, look at me. Like, look at me and naked TV shows, you know? Yeah. Like, I. I'm. I'm saying that it's a matter of, like, the tiniest amount of power that everyone can give us collectively will change the narrative in film and television. If I'm the lead of a television show and it's popular and they go, oh, it must be because of these other reasons, and I scream from the rooftops, it's because I'm disabled. And it's because it's interesting. And it's because no one's seen it. And they want to see interesting things they haven't seen before for. [00:47:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:33] Speaker B: If that's the truth and they get that, they're gonna go, can we do it again with Kurt and Jordan? With someone else, too. Can we do it when they're in a whole different kind of movie or TV show? What if Kurt and Jordan are involved and they get these other actors? Will it work? And then. Yes, it does. Over and over and over. And it's like, holy, there's a whole new way to make a ton of money. [00:47:56] Speaker A: Yeah. And. And the execs will be thinking about that. All the actors, the show riders, the directors are approaching it from a very different angle. [00:48:15] Speaker B: Very different. [00:48:16] Speaker A: How can we open up a conversation? How can we open up and even expand people's point of views? [00:48:30] Speaker B: I think what it is, is the society will change their point of view on disabilities when one king maker, one mass. Like a Dick Wolf, right? Yeah. Like someone like. Like a Dick Wolf, right? He does all like, R line order, blah, blah, blah, right? All this. Yeah, there's those guys, right? If Dick Wolf was listening to this podcast, which he's not, right? But if he were, and he went, this is a good idea. I want to make a show with Kurt as a lead, as a cop or a fireman who loses his leg, etcetera, ad nauseam. Dick Wolf isn't doing me a service. He's not doing the disabled community a service. What he's doing is he's preparing himself to get covered in gold pixie dust because he's going to make so much fucking money on a really amazing TV show. And that's the motivation disabled people have to present. [00:49:34] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. Because, like, we. We can work on the same project, have totally different motivations. And it's like, I remembered seeing you on that NCI episode and being, like, blown away and how you. How your character was used to empower the latered spouse of one of the main characters. Something I never thought I would see. I thought they would go the usual route of killing off the Denchi board character for sympathy. They did not do that. Not even close. And then you went on to again, you've been on every iteration of NCIS for a few episodes but that's a very well known franchise. It's like almost like Law and Order. It's like little worlds matter even if you're an extra. What? [00:51:25] Speaker C: I said I was boiling my piss at the moment. A view by seeing Penguin. [00:51:31] Speaker B: I haven't seen it yet. [00:51:33] Speaker C: Two main characters both have disabilities which have massive implications to their characters. Neither are played by disabled actors. [00:51:44] Speaker B: It's the same. It happens so often. Yeah, it happens. [00:51:48] Speaker C: Two leads. [00:51:50] Speaker B: Wow. It look it happens 95 of the time. [00:51:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:53] Speaker B: And I'm not making that number up from the Ruderman Foundation's family foundations white paper they did in in 2019. Like 95 of all characters are played by non disabled actors. And Those, those actors 1 don't get the opportunity and 2 when an able bodied person takes on the role of a disabled person they play up their like right. The, the cryptness of it. And they're like ah, look at how angry I am because of my name. And you're like you. [00:52:30] Speaker C: That's exactly, exactly what they're doing. [00:52:33] Speaker A: See when you're playing a villain I can understand that. I don't agree with it at all but I can understand. Well again if. And we're not. We're not trying to dead the Penguin at all. But yeah. [00:53:04] Speaker C: He'S my fantastic director and a fantastic actor. Why haven't they booked us? [00:53:08] Speaker A: We understand it more point. Good point. Well let's use that like will go back to the non disabled CEO of the company. Well if you have a disabled CEO or you have a disabled show writer or disabled director, they're in charge of the product. They are go that's. They are going to bring vastly different perspective to the project. That's why when I see cards in a major television franchise across every iteration that doesn't really need to do this but it does it anyway. And there are myriad of different reasons why but that stands out because it's like and I remember telling you lunchtime cut that you could easily be the fudge James Bond with a disability and sex that already uber, uber masculine character up in a web taking. [00:55:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:06] Speaker A: Totally unique way that yeah. No one would expect. [00:55:14] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think that's 100% true. Because once people can see it once they, once they. If they. If someone like Dick Wolf looked at the 78 episodes of television I've done or the 20 feature films or the 80 commercials, he'd go holy. And it's not like I'm playing like the Same character. Like I went from, you know, like the, the, the darkest character would be in Quarry. I don't know if the show you saw, but I'm a contract killer and I'm an absolute piece of like the worst human. And then you go all the way to like, you know, a TV show called Best Foot Forward where I'm like a, in a kid show and I'm like a sweet, happy like guy who's really confuffled and funny and you know, and, and you're like, wait a minute, that's the same guy. You know, like I was the club. [00:56:09] Speaker A: Member in Angry and Bitter. [00:56:12] Speaker B: Yeah. And, and not. And, and like I was in Sons of Anarchy for a season. I was in Tell Me a Story for a season. I was in Another Life on Netflix for a season. Like I've been in all these huge shows and projects and they can't see that I'm not playing a disabled guy. I'm playing a different character. And I have that range to go. The entire range of, of like an actor's ability and all they see is disabled actor. [00:56:40] Speaker C: Well, I'm like, all the time. [00:56:42] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm a piece of. In real life. But like, but my point is, my point is if Dick Wolf figured that out. Right. Or a Berlanti. Right. Like, or, or, or I'm trying to think of like, who's the guy who does like the American Horror Story. Ryan Murphy. If Ryan Murphy got finally a look. Right. Like one of those three are. There's a few more. But they, they, they looked and they went, look at this, look at this resume. [00:57:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:20] Speaker B: What could I do with it? Right? But again, Jordan and I have come to the realization that they're not going to look because they're not disabled. So they can't see the value. [00:57:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:57:33] Speaker A: Which is really, really unfortunate because you don't do the same thing with other cultures, other NIDs. [00:57:48] Speaker C: In fact, Keith, I think you should send Dick Wolf and Ryan Murphy a gift. They should send them this podcast. [00:57:54] Speaker B: Oh yeah, that was so funny. [00:57:58] Speaker A: If anyone had a connection. I mean, now Ryan, you just gotta send it. [00:58:05] Speaker B: You can just send it. You could just send it to like their, their website's information. You know, it's like info at whatever. But like, here's what I'll say to like one of those people. A Murphy or a Dick Wolf. One, take a look at Jordan. Jordan's directed a ton of. We need to get him over to America to direct some really awesome. That's number one. But two, when you look at me for, like, a role and not. I don't want to play a guest star. Recurring. Don't call me for that. I don't give a. That's just money. That's not going to change my career. You want to call me about a television show and you want me to be, like, one of the leading characters of your next TV show, Don't call me. Don't call me. What I want you to do is look at my resume and see the amount of work I've done and then call every single person that I've worked with. Call all the showrunners that I've worked with, call the directors I've worked with and ask them about my acting ability and my character on set. Am I a good human? Can I carry a show? Will I make sure that even the lowest person in the set will be taken care of and have a safe. Yes. That's what you want in a leading character. So call everybody else before you call me. Like, that's the kind of. You guys keep hiring all these assholes who treat women like. Or just in general come out with some weird sex scandal and you're like, what are you guys doing? Like, what are we doing here as a society? [00:59:32] Speaker A: It's like. And going back to ncis, on New Orleans, they had a disabled main character for the majority of the rock. [00:59:51] Speaker B: Yeah. That was Daryl Chill Mitchell. [00:59:53] Speaker A: Yes. And I. I first saw him in 10 Things I Hate about you, which then. He wasn't disabled at all. But, I mean, there. There's ways to write well. There's ability. To the point. [01:00:23] Speaker B: The point with Daryl Mitchell. I'll make you understand about it. Like, he wasn't written as a regular character first. He was written as a guest star, and then again and again and again, and then slowly worked his way up into being that. But then he's playing the character. That is a character that is the same type of character you're allowed to play when you're disabled. You can be the tech guy stuck in an office. [01:00:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:47] Speaker B: You know what I mean? Like, my gosh, that was his whole character until. Until he had this. The. The episode with me. Until our episode. And that was written by Catherine Bieti, who's disabled, by the way, and a great writer. Everyone should follow Catherine. Go on there. She's a badass surfer, too, and wheelchair MX gal who goes to skate parks. But, like, my point. Yeah, it was. It was only that, that she wrote that, that she said, we want to get Daryl's character out of the damn office, for one. [01:01:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:01:21] Speaker B: So that we can see he has a life. And, yeah, my character's disabled and, like, goes to kill somebody, and Daryl's trying to stop me, and it's like this whole thing. And. And we had. We won a bunch of awards for that episode. We won a Media Access Award and everything else. We had the most disabled actors in a television show that are the second most in all of history in one episode. And like, everyone's like, oh, okay, whatever. And you're like, we. We did that. Like, I came in as a guest actor and made the audience not care about the leading actors. You know what I mean? They were like, holy, what is this? And I do that over and over and over, and no one has been like, oh, that we should get a TV show with him, because he can really wrap up audiences. He can really do something. They're like, yeah, he did that. But disability. What do we do? I don't know. And it's because they're not disabled and they don't know the value of it. Like, I know, Keith, that you have great value in your experiences. Right. So that's why when. When we stopped the recording last time, we stayed on a call for, like, another 45 minutes, just talking. [01:02:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:37] Speaker B: Like, tell me about you. Tell me about what it's like. [01:02:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:40] Speaker B: How the podcast is going. That was the video element. And, like, that's Jordan and I talk, and I'm like, what neighborhood? That's what I know about Hasan and like, other things. [01:02:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:50] Speaker B: Him. I'm asking about it because I know the value of your. Both experiences. Yeah. As being a disabled person. Not. Not. Not let it informs everything you are. But it's like, tell me how you're treated by them. You know, tell me how you're like. Like that kind of stuff. [01:03:07] Speaker A: I mean, I mentioned earlier getting m. Identified over the phone as a woman, when people hear the voice and they're in person, I really wish people would call for up and ask the question, then assume that I'm drunk, on drugs or not all there. And that's why I do the. [01:03:46] Speaker B: Show. [01:03:46] Speaker A: Because I talk about it a lot. It's a big part of my advocacy. And if I can't talk about it, I might as well not do this job at all. It's like, I can't. But if you. If you normalize the speech, which, ironically, alcohol does for me, which is the exact opposite of what alcohol usually does for people. I mean, damn, my kid needs. I should. I should just be drunk all the time. No, I'm too. [01:04:40] Speaker B: Well, you know. [01:04:42] Speaker A: Alive to be killed. [01:04:45] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, it's a crazy story, but you remember the TV show. You're a little young, but the TV show, Laverne and Shirley. You remember that show? Okay, the guy who played Lenny, who is like, Squiggy and Lenny, they're like the best friends. Lenny. I can't remember the actor's name, but I believe he had als and he lied and told everybody that he was just a drunk and pretended that he was a drunk and pretended he was drunk all the time because he knew that that was more acceptable than to have a disability. [01:05:25] Speaker A: Yep. Yeah. [01:05:28] Speaker B: So he literally pretended to be an A functioning alcoholic so he wouldn't be fired. And he did that for 10 years. [01:05:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And it's horrible that people. [01:05:45] Speaker B: To do that, not. Not choose to have to. Yeah, they have to. [01:05:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [01:05:54] Speaker B: If I. If I walk in, like, wearing pants, I am treated like a man. If I walk in wearing shorts, I'm, like, pitied in sympathy. If I come in with my leg off in a wheelchair. Oh, that just. Are you okay, buddy? I'm like, yeah, shut the up. [01:06:19] Speaker A: If I had a nickel. But every time I've been called buddy, Buddy. Hey, buddy. [01:06:29] Speaker B: Let me. Let me hug you there, buddy. Hey, good on you for being out there, buddy. You. I'm 30. Well, I'm almost 30 is what you're saying. Right? I mean, like. Like, I am a man. [01:06:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:06:43] Speaker B: Jordan, I know you've had. You've had that. What's your experience with that all the time? [01:06:48] Speaker C: I mean, it's. If I'm meeting like this over zoom, it's totally different. See, if people see me in person. [01:06:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:57] Speaker C: Even if I stand up, people watch. You can see them looking at my leg when I stand. Well, I don't know. They think he's going to do light up or something. [01:07:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:07:07] Speaker C: It's just. It's just bizarre. It's. It's just weird. And people do talk to me and treat me, they say, very differently. Very differently is really odd. Really is. [01:07:24] Speaker B: Yeah. It's crazy. And here's the thing. I understand it because society programs people like, about disabilities to treat it as something to be pitied or to be inspired by. Right. And you get no other reaction. You either get people who stare and don't say anything and they're sad for you, or they're like, hey, man, I see you in the grocery store. Oh, how'd you lose your leg? Do you military? And I'm like, no. And they're like, I get that a lot. [01:08:00] Speaker C: People assume I'M military. [01:08:02] Speaker B: Military? Yeah, bro. And I'm like, no. And they're like, oh, how did it happen? And I'm like, motorcycle. Like, oh, those are dangerous. I'm like, yeah. No. And then they don't know what to say. And they're like, man, well, good on you for being out and getting around. I'm like, I'm buying bananas in the produce section. I'm not doing anything. I'm literally standing here trying to get some bananas and have you shut the up and go away. Like, yeah, like. Like, you know what I mean? Like, so it's baffling. But here's the thing. The reason all those people treat us that way and every disability, right? Like, wheelchair users are treated differently than us. Little people are treated differently. Deaf and blind, everything. We're all treated slightly differently, right? You know, wheelchair users are often prayed for. Little people get their heads pat, right? Like, you get called. [01:08:52] Speaker C: People have prayed for me in a lift before. I've gotten lifting. The guy got down on his knees. [01:08:56] Speaker B: Yeah. And you're like, just to be able to pray for me to get down on my knees and get up easy, right? Like, that's like. That would be the prayer for you to get. Shut the fuck up. But my point is, not only does society treat disabilities this way because film and television have programmed them, but also, you know, if. And this is to be fair to them, if their training is negative about us and they've never had a disability and they don't have anyone in their life, they're gonna have no other reference. So they're ignorant, at no fault of their own, because they just don't have it around. Like, I don't know what it was like to grow up black in the Bronx. I'm a white dude from the West Coast. You know what I mean? I know what it's like to grow up in a bad neighborhood, going to Juvia and getting a lot of fights and getting stabbed and hit with baseball bats. Yeah, I get that. But I couldn't tell you what it was like to grow up in the Bronx. So it's like, we have to understand that they don't know. Not to any fault of their own. It's. It's the people who are limiting us from showing disabilities in society that are the actually people to blame because they have the power and they should have the intellectual capacity to understand their own implicit biases, but they don't, because they just, you know, for the same reasons that the average person doesn't, because they just don't Know any better? They should at this point, but they don't. [01:10:30] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, that's a very important point about the programming of culture and society. I mean, it's like we're making jokes only about, oh, Jordan's married and is a father. How did that happen? Can he survive another day of fatherhood? It's like you. He's a man. [01:11:07] Speaker B: Yep. [01:11:07] Speaker A: And, yeah, I'm sure it's son or his wife or both of the. And don't look at him any differently than the loving, supportive father and husband he's always been. But if you make that a short or a documentary or anything, people will lose their minds. Wait, he's sexually active yet? He is, yeah. [01:11:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:11:45] Speaker A: Made for God. [01:11:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:11:50] Speaker A: I'm sorry. [01:11:52] Speaker B: No, no. Well, and then. And then you get. Then. But then you get like a compounding problem. Right. So then you get the typical problems of, like, female issues. Right. That's different than male issues. [01:12:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:12:05] Speaker B: I don't want to say more. I'll say the same. Because men don't get credit for how much they have to go through every day, but at the same time, they. Women get other. Now, imagine the disabilities and that right now it's like, they're unsexy now, which isn't true now. They're unattractive now. They can't have babies now. That's all not true. Like, my friend Teal Shearer, who's a wheelchair user, has two beautiful children and a happy marriage and a husband and the whole nine yards, like, perfectly fine. But then you compound that and then you add another cross sectionality. Now you're black, disabled, and you have those issues and you're driving a car and you know what I mean? It's like, for fuck's sake. Like, the amount of stupidity that rolls downhill just because we're not including people in film and television is so ridiculous again. That's why, like, our organization, XA Endowment is the only solution. We need to raise as much money, $10 million for the organization and get Jordan and I half a million followers minimum. So we can literally go and change this. And it's not like, oh, we're going to ask them to do it for us. No, we. We've already, like, I'm on my sixth project with my production company. I'm already doing it. And when I get to $10 million, I'll be able to change the inclusion statistics and increase disability representation by over 6,000% permanently, year over year, literally. That will change the way society sees disabilities forever. End of story. Game over. [01:13:43] Speaker C: It's only going to change when there's an element of disability power at the top. [01:13:47] Speaker B: Yeah. When we have that capital and we're making projects, we become a capital generating organization. We don't need any more money. Once we raise that much money, we can take all the money we can get, but we become a powerful entity that can lift other disabled voices. Because we are not in the business of charity. We're in the business of making money that happens to be in the film and television, but that happens to change society. But as we get more power and more capital, one for me, I don't care about money because I grew up poor, so I'm happy with cheap ass shit. It doesn't matter. Like a cheap hat. That's my wife's company. Like, perfect. I love it. Don't give a shit. So because I don't care about money, I. Oh, yeah. I got married. [01:14:38] Speaker C: Oh, so inspirational. [01:14:41] Speaker A: Yeah. It's amazing. Damn it. Like, how did that happen? How. [01:14:49] Speaker B: Why would anyone love so, like. But then that's. That's the entire point. Like, like, they can't understand it. But we become a powerful capital generating organization for other disabled people as well. So a disabled company that makes clothing. We're like, hey, we're gonna put that into our productions and we're gonna tell everyone, go buy your stuff. Like, over and over and over. But Jordan knows, like, we've had conversations. People look at us like lobsters are crawling out of our ears and our bodies are turned inside out because they can't comprehend what the we're saying. [01:15:33] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:15:34] Speaker B: You're like. [01:15:36] Speaker C: We'Ve spoken people in high positions. [01:15:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:15:40] Speaker C: Just completely goes over the head when we're speaking, like, almost speaking slowly in layman's terms, still not landing. [01:15:51] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And like, Jordan, like, Jordan sees us. This is how fast I want to talk all the time because my mind's on fire. But when I have meetings with Jordan and, like, other executives, I'm like, hey, how are you guys doing today? Well, I wanted to talk to you guys about disability inclusion and how we could change the narrative, but how we could make a lot of money. I feel like I'm talking to a fucking sixth grader. Like, I'm like. I'm like, for fuck's sake, let me speak fast so you can keep up. Let's go. But I can't, because, one, they don't have any experience with it. So this is a brand new subject, and as you know, it doesn't matter what the brand new subject is. Brand new subjects are scary. If you said, hey, let's go to a ceramics class, you'd be like, okay. And then if the teacher was talking this fast, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna go ahead and throw the clay on here and do this. But you'd be like, I don't, I, I can't. It's too fast. [01:16:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:46] Speaker B: So you have to slow down because they don't know anything. And then you just go, okay, here's what we're gonna talk about. Disability. I had a conversation with a huge studio, one of the biggest on the, on the planet. Okay. Let me just say top three. Okay. You can guess which one of the three. [01:17:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:17:06] Speaker B: And I was talking to the. They're called current executives. So they're the executives of television shows that are currently airing. And I said, hey, you know, we have an issue. And I had coffee and I was already a little like ornery. [01:17:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:17:26] Speaker B: Like I was tired of this fucking conversation. And, and they're like, well, we're really trying to include, you know, people with disabilities. We have a program for. And I go, let me stop you right there. Here's what I'm going to ask you. Name the, the disabled actors you have on your current 15 television shows in a capacity of 1 to 10 on a call sheet. Go. And I'm not going to say go and let you continue thinking because you have zero. Yeah, I already know it. [01:17:54] Speaker A: You have zero. [01:17:56] Speaker B: That's 150 people that you have working and you have zero people. [01:18:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:18:01] Speaker B: And that's every single studio and every single network. And then a network will go, well, we have one. And I'm like, one out of 150 is not 20%. [01:18:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:18:14] Speaker B: One out of 300 is not 20%. One out of 500 is not 20. One out of four is 25%. One out of five is 20. And we get worse from there. [01:18:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:18:31] Speaker B: So what's one out of a hundred? Right? That's one. So one out of 150 is less than 1%, which is on par for the amount of representation. And they think that's a good thing. Like that's what makes it just baffling. So. [01:18:51] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it's like going back to school when you're writing all your time papers and you, your teachers, your professors will know the subject, but any teacher will loved their sword is going to tell you you have to write like you're explaining a brand new topic to me. Because you can't assume that everyone who will read or come across Your, Your walk. It's gonna know anything about your walk. Yeah. And here's the most successful writing out. Yeah. [01:19:51] Speaker B: Well, these, and these executives need to understand one thing. Here's what they're gonna get right now. They're like, they think that listening to me speak the way I am, they're like, oh my gosh, he's gonna come in and hit me with a baseball bat. [01:20:05] Speaker A: That. [01:20:06] Speaker B: Right? And I'm like, no. What I'm going to do is be this passionate, this intellectual, this emotionally cognizant and bring that value and that experience to your aid to literally guide you in something you don't know very slowly and carefully and help you integrate character with disabilities into on camera and then behind the scenes. Right. Like, show you how to do it from a way that's going to make you money and offer you a piece of my power in exchange for a piece of your power. And collectively, we have more power. [01:20:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:20:53] Speaker B: So do you want more power? Yes. Okay, we'll take some of mine, but give me some of yours and we will have more power. And all people think is like, oh, you want to take. And that's the problem with disability inclusion. Advocacy groups that function in Hollywood is that's how they function. They're like, well, you need to use this language. Why are you teaching them language when they don't even know what the fuck you're talking about? [01:21:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:21:16] Speaker B: Curse words. That's a universal truth. Just curse. You know, like disabled. Call me that. Call me a bastard. Call me a one legged piece of. I don't care. Like, that's the point. Like, because I'm a professional. I don't care what you call me. I only care how you treat me. And right now you're treating me like a one legged bastard. So that's why I don't care what you call me, because that's all you're treating me like. And that's how you're treating Jordan. Jordan is treated like a disabled director when he has directed so much that he should be a director. [01:21:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:21:57] Speaker B: Period. You know what I mean? Like, and that's the problem. They're patronizing and they're performative by using language, which offends me because then they think they've done a good job and they haven't and they stop there. [01:22:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:22:15] Speaker B: They're not actually looking for change. [01:22:18] Speaker A: And people will think that putting in the bare minimum. [01:22:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Is acceptable. Yeah. Yeah. [01:22:30] Speaker A: So revolutionary. And it's like, this isn't the 1930s. This isn't the 60s. We're in 2024. [01:22:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Well, think about it. Dude. Dude. Jordan is introduced around his. His peers as a disabled director. Not BAFTA winning director. [01:23:00] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [01:23:01] Speaker B: Do you know how hard it is to win a bafta? [01:23:05] Speaker A: No, but I mean, twice. Yeah, twice. [01:23:10] Speaker B: I mean, why am I an Oscar or an Emmy? Yeah, it's like winning an Oscar and Emmy. Think about it. [01:23:17] Speaker A: Why am I the one hosting the show? Why doesn't Jordan hold the show? He had the credibility that would. [01:23:30] Speaker B: But he's only. He's introduced as a disabled director. [01:23:34] Speaker C: That's my ceiling. [01:23:36] Speaker A: Yeah. It's like you might only care about disability storage. No, I. I will legally take any walk within region that you present me with. [01:24:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Think about it this way, Dick. Jordan, have how many like executive studio or network or whatever called you, buddy? [01:24:09] Speaker C: Oh, every single one. [01:24:12] Speaker B: Think about it. The same thing you said, Keith. The executives are like, hey, Jordan. Hey, buddy. Hey, director with a disability. How you doing? You want to direct our episode? We'll help you out. And he's like, shut the up. I've won two baftas. [01:24:27] Speaker A: Yeah, it. [01:24:29] Speaker B: It's like dehumanizing. [01:24:32] Speaker A: Yeah, no, it. It totally is. [01:24:36] Speaker B: Not to speak for you, Jordan. Not to speak for. I'm just talking too much. I'm gonna drink some liquid so you guys can talk a little bit because. Shut the up, Kurt. [01:24:44] Speaker C: Gee, where can I get one of them hats? Kurt? I want a hat. [01:24:49] Speaker B: You want a hat? [01:24:50] Speaker C: I want a hat. [01:24:51] Speaker B: All right, I'm gonna get you a hat. I'm gonna send you a hat. [01:24:53] Speaker C: Send me a hat. [01:24:55] Speaker A: I mean, I think the joke permeating this season is trying to find a guest or guest who would easily happily do a five hour episode with me. Do I really want to do a five hour episode? No. But it makes people laugh when they hear it. And I'm trying to spruce up the interviewing style by putting more humor in. But this has been a great conversation. A conversation that could easily go five hours. Wrapping up this segment of it because, let's be honest, you can come back whenever the you want. You're. You're just the fun to talk to. Like I interview. Like I end every interview in case there are any inspiring advocates of any stripes wanting to get into the entertainment industry and make it more inclusive. Not easy to do, but that's someone. Pageant adds two individuals who are fighting the good fight. What would be some action steps or some advice you will give the next generation pursue relentlessly? [01:27:02] Speaker C: People will tell you, you can't. Don't bother why you're doing it. Keep doing it. Everybody else else's opinion. It doesn't matter what anybody else thinks. You've got to push hard. You've got to fight for what you want and believe in it. It's hard, but keep fighting and you'll get there in the end. It's the best industry. [01:27:22] Speaker B: I'd say, to follow up. Exactly. With Jordan. It's better to apologize than ask permission. So them do whatever you want. Make enemies, which will make you friends in the long run. Do, like, go tell truth to power and go figure it out. And be. You have to be, as a disabled person, better than the other than your compatriots. You have to be a better director, a better actor, a better writer. So one, work on your skills. Like film. If you're a director, film everything. You got a fucking camera right here in your iPhone. You got a cheap editing software. Go make stuff and start doing it. Build up your repertoire. But then also don't take the crumbs from the table. If they don't give you your respect, tell them to go jump off a cliff. If the contract doesn't look good, tear it up and say, I'm not doing this. Like, just go, I'm sorry. Like, I've literally said no to some huge projects. Huge. Like one that just shot in New York. Hey, you're gonna be on with these two giant actors, Jude Law and this one. And I was like, yeah, but the character's written. Like, my agent's like, what are you talking about? They're offering you the role. And I'm like, I'm not gonna do it. [01:28:37] Speaker A: But it's Jude Law. [01:28:38] Speaker B: And I'm like, well, him. I'm sure he's a nice guy. I don't know. I don't know him. But his TV show. Because the writer wrote this dog. I don't care. Oh, no, now you're talking about Jude Law. Like, oh, him, his agent, his manager, and everyone else. Like, who gives a shit? Like, oh, what's Jude Law gonna do to me? You know, unless. And he's like a really badass. And he's a tough guy and we get a fight. He beats me up. Like, gives a. Like, what's the worst? Like, you see what I'm saying? Like, so what I would say is, is just do whatever you're gonna do and fight your way in both understanding that these people don't know anything about disability. So don't get bitter, right? You can't get bitter because that'll just be your downfall. Yeah, but you also can't expect any of them to help you, which means you need to help yourself and fight way more than anyone else would have to to get into this. But the good people in this industry will see it, and they're like, look at this little fighter. That's someone I can back. And then you meet people like your compatriots. Then you meet a Jordan along. I mean, Jordan and I just met like a year and a half ago. Well, we've been in the business for 20 years each. Right? You've been. Yeah, 20. Right. So that's 40 years of experience as disabled creators, and we just met for the first time in a year and a half ago. [01:30:08] Speaker A: Wow. [01:30:10] Speaker B: You don't know. But. But it took him to get to this level and me to get to this level that we could have this kind of conversation. [01:30:17] Speaker C: Going back to our is a pun through the magic of Instagram. [01:30:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:30:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:30:21] Speaker B: Yes. [01:30:23] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's how we met Jordan. You listened to the show and you commented, brazil, I want to be on the show. Did I know who you are? No. But once I looked at you website, I would like, oh, my. [01:30:49] Speaker B: Dude, he's a badass. Jordan's a badass, man. I want Jordan to be my boss. [01:30:56] Speaker A: Yeah. I want Jordan to be my father, and I love my father. But it. It's like the. The esteem. It. It's what? It's the diamonds in the rock. I like to think that both advocates with disabilities and those who have yet to discover or embrace their own disabilities legend and watch vids show. It's a show now. It's not just a podcast. It's not just a video cats. It's both inex here. It will be a nonprofit as well. But I'm not naive enough to think that each group and groups within those groups take the same things away from every episode. So as my esteem gets, what do you hope that advocates with disabilities across every field take away from everything we've talked about? And what do you hope that those who have yet to discover orenbridge their own disabilities take away from this episode? [01:32:42] Speaker C: We kind of have to lead the way. Don't take any shit. Pursue what you believe in. Pursue what you need. We kind of. We need to kind of prove a point. We need to stand up and be counted and show people what we're all about and we can get what we want, regardless of what's up against us. [01:33:00] Speaker B: Yeah. And I. And I say, yeah, go ahead. Keep going. [01:33:04] Speaker C: No, no, you're on board. [01:33:06] Speaker B: No. And I would say if you're not reaching out and finding people with disabilities to support. Right. As an organization, as an advocate, then you're only advocating for yourself. [01:33:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:33:23] Speaker B: Which isn't real advocation. Like, you need to. Like, I follow so many people with disabilities. Like, I'll randomly search disability in there and I'm like, oh, cool, look at this video. Follow, follow, follow, follow, follow, follow. You're disabled. Follow, follow, follow, follow. That's the support. Like, every one of these organizations seems to just want to go ahead and do something where they get their own followers worship for their own means. And then they're not remembering the giving part, the advocacy, the. The. The tide rises, all boats, you know, so to the young person getting in, as Jordan said it, get what you need, do what you need, Drive it, your passion. But also don't go blindly into it and keep your passion identical. Like at 18, 18 years old, your passion should change as you hit new information, and your passion should adjust to the reality of the game. So I would say keep your passion, but just like moving from checkers to chess, learn the game, learn the new rules, learn how all the pieces move, and become a strategist. Understand the difference between strategy and tactics. Understand the differences between those things. And learn the rules of the game that you're getting into so that you can break the rules how you need them. [01:34:49] Speaker C: And Dick Wolf and Ryan Murphy call us. [01:34:53] Speaker B: Yes. [01:34:54] Speaker A: Yeah. And don't stop with judge. Those two Disney Marvel deeds. [01:35:03] Speaker C: Seven faggots, you know. [01:35:06] Speaker A: Yeah. James gone. It's like, everyone's welcome to walk with us. [01:35:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, and they need. They need. And here's what I think a lot of people with disabilities don't understand. They need someone who is a brilliant writer, who has experience, who's a great actor, who has directed editorial experience in the industry so that they can trust the opinions of those people. And if James Gunn knew that Jordan or I existed, they'd go, well, he's done some pretty good work. Let's have a conversation. If Dick Wolf, Ryan Murphy was like, holy, they're pretty good. Let's see what they have to say about this. [01:35:58] Speaker C: It's exactly the same with Daredevil and Penguin. Why have they called us? [01:36:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:36:03] Speaker C: They need us. They need us. [01:36:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:36:06] Speaker C: More than we need them. [01:36:07] Speaker A: Yeah. And again, it's follow these people. Follow these gats. C. JA and Jordan Hog. And it's not. I cannot stretch. That's enough. Following them does nothing to their egos. They're not out for vanity. They want to be followed so that they can represent ideas, projects, creations to expand the mindset of what people think and feel that people with disabilities can do. It's the same thing behind this show. It's about illuminating and expanding what people think and feel that disability is. It's way more than just a medical condition, folks. [01:37:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Think about it this way. If Jordan has a half a million followers as a director and a producer, he has more power to demand when he wants a disabled actor included in production because they believe that it's more valuable because Jordan knows something they don't because he has a half a million followers. And two, if they him, Jordan has a mouthpiece to go, hey, these guys screwed this person over and they fear us. You need both the carrot and the stick. And the amount of followers helps us do that. I don't care about. Like, if I wasn't in the film business, I wouldn't even be on social media. Media. The only reason I'm on there is because it's necessary for my business. I was working on my master's in hydrogeology doing research and Blueville experimentations at Berkeley Labs. I wasn't even in this. Like, I was. I wouldn't even be on social media. I wouldn't give a. But the point is that in this business, it actually matters not to make money, to have influence and power. As a producer myself, I can go in now and go, hey, I want 5% of my cast to be disabled. And they're gonna go, we don't know. And I go, well, do you want me to demand 20 and tell you and tell my audience that you told me to go jump off a bridge? No. Like, no, no, no. And I'm like, okay, then, so let's go for five. Let's be reasonable and work up to 10, and then work up to 15 and then get to 20. And then they go, okay. And then I go, great, thanks for the 5%. I also want 5% of my credit crew. And they're like, oh, okay. And then they go, okay, Here you go, 5% of your crew. And then I say, okay, what are your ancillary companies? And they. What do you mean? I go, like, crafty. The people we hire, like, right. I want one of the crafty people to have a disability. And you start going down the line. And then we systemically change the way that disabilities is included. That's it. And everyone's like, holy. Do you know why disability isn't so important? Well, for a hundred different reasons, but for the main one is it makes everyone realize what's important in life. Like, it makes you just slow down for a half a minute and go, okay. And I think when people do that, they realize that disabilities is so valuable to be included in regular life. It, like, limits the stupidity of, like, corporate greed. It eliminates the stupidity of the anything that's not human. Because to be disabled is a natural human experience. [01:39:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:40:00] Speaker B: And all we're doing is excluding it. And when someone has anything that relates to a disability, even if it's temporary, they're shunned. When that is totally normal. Like, oh, you have a flaw. Ew. Oh, your nose is a little crooked. Ew. Oh, you've got a limp. Like, ew. You know what? You. Your idea of perfection, because that doesn't exist. So that's what followers do for us. They give us the power to fix that forever, to change that narrative. At least as long as this society is around. Like, maybe we'll have a big meteorite strike and we'll have a new one, and then we'll be again and have to figure this out again in 7,000 years. But, man, like, that's what the followers do. Yeah, Jordan, like, speak to it, man. Like, he. He. He would literally be like, my greatest advocate, personally, to be on one of his shows. If he had more followers, like, that would have already happened. [01:41:02] Speaker C: Yeah. 100. [01:41:05] Speaker A: Well, let's keep talking and keep working to get the original IP made. C. Yeager and Jordan Hog. I'll be talking and seeing both of you again very soon. [01:41:25] Speaker B: God love it, brother. [01:41:27] Speaker A: Love you too. [01:41:29] Speaker B: All right, bye. Later. [01:41:42] Speaker A: You have been listening to Disability Empowerment. Now I would like to thank my guests. You are listener and the disability empowerment team that made this episode possible. More information about the podcast can be [email protected] or on our social media. Disabilityempowermentnow. The podcast is available wherever you listen to. Podcasts are on the official website. Don't forget to rate, comment and share the podcast. This episode of disability empowerment knowledge copyrighted 2020.