Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Welcome to Disability Empowerment now season four. I'm your host, Keith Murphy de Ginsini. Today I'm talking to O.C.
rogers.
[00:00:24] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:00:26] Speaker A: Welcome to the show.
[00:00:35] Speaker B: Thank you so much, Keith. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really pleased to be with you today.
[00:00:41] Speaker A: I forgot to mention that you just wrote a book.
Why don't we start there?
[00:00:52] Speaker B: Sure. Yes, I. I wrote a book called Autistic Leaping Over Walls Whilst Living With Autism. Yeah. So I launched that. The book was actually published last year, July on Amazon. And I'm proud to say that I did make bestseller in the first couple of weeks that we. We launched the book on Amazon and we had very good reviews. And, yeah, it's been a blessing to reach out to so many people who also have reached out to me, sharing their stories and forming a good community. And.
[00:01:25] Speaker A: So what motivated that book for.
[00:01:31] Speaker B: Me, what motivated the book was I was at a good place at the time to write the book. I have two sons, Joshua and Christian. Joshua is autistic. He's 26 now.
When we, when I launched the book, published the book last year, he was 25 and his brother Christian was 20. But now they're both 21 and 26. I was in a good place to write that book and to share my experience and my story in the way that I dealt with the whole diagnosis when Joshua was five, and our journey and our life up till now, the difficulties, the joys, the highs and the lows. And I thought it was best to share that experience with the world because, as I say, I was in a very good place. And I noticed also that there weren't many books written by people like me, you know, women who are black.
And I wanted to share from that perspective that we've been through this, we're still dealing with it. And also bringing in the voice of Christian as a sibling impacted by autism, sharing his side of the story.
Because what happened was I didn't want the whole situation in the family to impact Christian so much, and I had to make sure that I also focus on raising Christian so that he. He didn't suffer any neglect or become a carer for Joshua. Instead, what I did was to forge together brotherly love and brother sibling by engaging both kids in all social activities. However, there were times when it felt like Joshua was having more of my time. And in the book, Christian shares the story of how that impacted him and how he dealt with it and how that also made him a better person.
So.
[00:03:24] Speaker A: Let'S talk about the sibling bond.
Kurds that's very important.
And you hinted at it beautifully.
How did Crichin react when you first told him that his older brother had autism?
[00:03:52] Speaker B: The age difference between them is five years. So at the time, Christian didn't truly understand the word autism. I just explained to him that his brother needed a lot more attention and that he was different.
But because I did a lot of things with them together, we traveled a lot, we used to play together, we used to go out to do fun things together. It didn't feel like it was hard for Christian to understand.
But I think for him what was painful was how other outside people viewed our situation and how they reacted to us when we were out at restaurants or when we traveled or when we were playing and with other families on holiday. That's when I think it really impacted Christian because I've raised both children to be very loving, very caring is the reaction from communities and society that really affected Christian.
[00:04:44] Speaker A: And what about Joshua?
How did he react to finding out he had autism growing through.
[00:04:59] Speaker B: I think there's an innocence about Joshua where even up till now I don't think Joshua understands the word autism. Joshua just knows that he is loved. Joshua just knows that he's absolutely cared for because he's involved in everything that we do as a family. Joshua's been to maybe over 10, 12 countries with me, with, with, with, with, with Christian, with my mom. We traveled together as a family outside of that as well.
I launched my hair, my hair care products and a beard products last year, March. I included Joshua as one of the models in our commercials because Joshua loves to participate in anything that involves performance. He plays the piano, he's quite self taught. So because I include him in things he doesn't feel like about him. And I want to also applaud my family members as well who treat Joshua as normal. Like I said, growing up was when we had the difficulty when we were going out in communities how people perceived autism. But I never let that stop me. I never let that stop me. I always made sure that if I went into a restaurant, for example, I'll be quick to say, look, I have an autistic child and can I sit somewhere quiet? And I would take with me little things that will help Joshua, like calm down and maybe he could start drawing.
And to me it just made life a lot easier. And he started to learn social skills. Like now when we're traveling at the air, when we get to the airport, he's the one who goes to the counter and introduces himself to, to the, to the to the check in there to say, hello, my name is Joshua. And he hands over his passport because he's used to traveling, he's used to the engagement. He gets excited when we're traveling now because I have to show him and prepare him for, for example, if we're going to say Spain, he knows we're going to Spain, what day at the time. We get him involved in the packing, we get him involved in choosing the activities so he understands what's coming. And again, having his brother there, they also now can do things on their own because they're adults. So Joshua hasn't felt like, oh, I'm different. He's very funny. He just loves, you know, making me laugh, making the family laugh, enjoys playing the piano, enjoys his own company sometimes, which, you know, which we, which we actually allow him be.
[00:07:19] Speaker A: Talk to me about the other stuff you do on your website and through your advocacy because you do a lot and you have several different titles.
How do they all connect if they do?
[00:07:46] Speaker B: Absolutely. So one of the things that was very important to me when I found out that Joshua was autistic, as I said, when he was 5, this was 20 something years ago, I was already a working mom and I didn't want that to stop me from working. If anything, it was a blessing to be in a career because that money helped me to provide the funding needed for private therapies. What I did was I left my full time job and I started to do consulting. I started to work on my own and I formed my own limited company and I was getting contracts, applying the experience that I had gained from the financial services industry in the UK and that opened doors for me. So I was able to pay for a lot of things for Joshua which the, the government in the UK were either delaying to pay or some of the things they couldn't pay for because they were non educational needs. So for example, music therapy was classified as a non educational need. Now for me, Joshua wasn't able to listen, wasn't able to concentrate. How do you engage with a child who's not able to sit, sit down and concentrate, for example. So but with music therapy over 7, 10, I think we did that for almost 10 years. That's how Joshua had the ear for playing the piano and he became self taught and from that he performed at the Royal Albert hall in the UK and even now he's still enjoying playing the piano. And we have an invitation actually to, to come to New York in November at a gala where Joshua will be playing and I'll be Speaking now, how does that connect the dot? And over time, that made me very.
Because I tried not to make it about me. It was all about Josh. It was all about Christians supporting both boys to have the maximum in terms of life and enjoyment that I could, I could give to them. Especially at the time I had, I was divorced. So my children mean the world to me and it was all about pouring out my love for them. And then during COVID I was homeschooling both children. Now Joshua was in a special needs unit in Canterbury in Kent, where we live, and Christian was doing his A levels. It was a very stressful time for us because Joshua couldn't understand why suddenly he couldn't go out. He couldn't do the things he. He loved doing. He couldn't go to youth clubs anymore. My hair started to fall out. I tried using so many products, it just wasn't working. And then I started to research what would work. And over time, I identified what, what was working. And then as I said earlier, I launched my own hair growth serum, which is unisex because Joshua was.
Christian was also having itchy scalp and they were both my first test beds. And it worked. So again, I bring my children into everything that I'm. That I'm doing. And then launching and publishing the book as well has opened opportunities for me to speak at events. I also had my own first event in October here in the uk just to share again my lived experience, to encourage people and share some of the things that we've been through, how we did it, not just music therapy, speech therapy, horse riding.
Another thing we did was helping Joshua to coordinate with eye coordination, was swimming, was basketball. So just putting all of those therapies together and making sure that Joshua was gaining understanding, communication, social skills. Now, not all the therapies work. I mention all of that in my book, but the things that I found worked. I would hone in on that. Another thing that we did was at therapy. So connecting the dots for me is I was maximizing my talent, my skills as well, to give the best for us as a family and for my children to have a better life.
[00:11:30] Speaker A: Talk more about what is it like as a mother, seeing your old age child grow up with that.
Pardon me, Grow up with that innocence.
Because a lot of us lose that very early on, certainly before our 20s, are almost 30s.
[00:12:12] Speaker B: And.
[00:12:14] Speaker A: What did that like for you and his mother?
[00:12:23] Speaker B: It's a beautiful thing, I must say, to know that Joshua grew up with such innocence. Now, if I had to flip, was hard to deal with it. With Christian. Because I was used to Joshua not doing the things that teenage boys do. Yeah. Because it was easy to work with Joshua. So, for example, I talk about dealing with puberty in my book as well, which, again, most books don't talk about. And one of the ways that I.
[00:12:56] Speaker A: Know they do not talk about.
[00:13:00] Speaker B: Yes. So I talk about puberty and how.
[00:13:03] Speaker A: We all go through it.
[00:13:04] Speaker B: We all go through that. Exactly.
[00:13:07] Speaker A: Mode.
Yeah. Continue.
Yeah.
[00:13:12] Speaker B: So with. With. With Joshua, I made. I made it very easy, making sure there was no shame attached to what he was going through. And I sought help from the schools and the colleges that he went to. At the time. I went straight up to the head teacher at Cricket Green. I said, oh, my God, Mrs. Dawson, this is happening to Josh. What can I do? What can you help me? The school was absolutely incredible in the way that they partnered with me because Josh lent through Pepsi a lot of pictures. So we devised a means together on how to educate Joshua with Pepsi. So the do's and the don'ts and the boundaries. Because for me, it wasn't about anybody stepping their boundaries with Josh. It was also for me, how would Joshua also respect people's boundaries? So I started to implement those in my house, making sure I, for example, no longer would just barge into his room. I would knock, and until he wants me to come in, I wouldn't go in. Vice versa. So we started to implement those. We started to encourage him to wear his dressing gown. We started to encourage him using words like safe space, you know, and who to high five, who to elbow in a way that you greet people so that's respectful. And not going around hugging people inappropriately. Now, that took a while. That took a while.
And when I knew that Joshua was masturbating, I'm gonna use the word openly. I never made it a shame thing for him.
[00:14:44] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:14:46] Speaker B: I was.
[00:14:47] Speaker A: And it, like, I totally respect.
[00:14:56] Speaker B: One of the things that I said to Josh was he was only allowed to do it in his bedroom. He was never allowed to do it anywhere else. So if I knew that he was having a private moment, I would not step into his bedroom because I knew stuff was going on. And I could see that he likes girls, you know, and he. And I would talk about girls. Like, he liked. He likes Beyonce. He likes Mariah Carey because it's quite musical, you know, And I'll ask him why he likes. Then he'll tell me about their hair again. I would drum in the. The boundaries, what to do, what not to do to people. Because, you know, when we go out, encouraging him to be aware of strangers, stranger danger. So that. That's how we overcame puberty. So he knows what to do and what not to do. Whereas with Christian, Christian knew stuff even before I could talk to him. And then I remember. I remember. I remember when he used to laugh at, you know, Joshua, when Joshua would be, you know, showing signs of it. I used to tease him, saying, you're laughing now. Wait till it gets to your turn.
But I also didn't just take it for granted that because Christian knew so much that I didn't have that conversation with him.
I had the conversation with him, and I told him about boundaries. And both my boys are respectful now. One of the things that I also employed. I forgot to say that as well with Joshua, he has great uncles. My brothers are great. One of my brothers, Edward, is quite funny. So I rang him. I'm like, dude, oh, my God. This is what I'm dealing with with Josh. And we laughed about it. And it's even in my book where I say, uncle Edward said, you know, why don't we just get him a magaz and just get the show over and over and done with? You know, and we. We just joked about it. And then they. They. They are there to encourage him as well to, you know, to say, you know, boundaries. You know, you don't step out of bounds. And one of the things that I do with Josh as well, I take him to social settings, especially now that he's very aware, and he loves music. I go to a nice restaurant where they're playing good music, and we sit down as a family and enjoy. And I make life as normal and accepting as it can be for Josh so that he doesn't get excitable when he sees something new, because he's getting used to a lot of the things that I. I love a lot of the things that you love, a lot of the things that other people love. So that if he. If he sees the opposite sex that he likes, he doesn't get, you know, excited just because. Because he's used to it. When we go to the park as well. If we say hello to people, we say hello to people nicely. And if we're gonna step boundaries, I always remind him of the safe space and the respect for other people's privacy. And also stranger danger.
[00:17:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:17:40] Speaker B: So that. That's how I've managed the innocence. But is he really innocent now? I don't think so. Because if he's telling me that he loves girls, is there Any innocence there? Not really. It's just making sure that he doesn't step out of bounds, that's all.
[00:17:55] Speaker A: Yeah, no, the innocent is more surrounding.
The innocence I'm referring to is around the disability and what it means.
It's not purely the intellect or whatever.
It's because of, as you know, autism will be with him throughout his life.
And it's.
So that is what I was trying to hone in on. But you're absolutely right. He is growing up. And I completely applaud your frank nature. Open it.
Unfortunately, I couldn't get the book. It's not yet available in the U.S.
[00:19:12] Speaker B: It is, it is on Amazon.com. oh, so you can get it, you can download it? Kindle?
[00:19:19] Speaker A: Oh, yes. You know, I'm old fashioned with the books I research and listen to, but yeah. So what's next for you in terms of your advocacy and advocating for your son?
[00:19:49] Speaker B: It's, it's, it's a long life thing. It's more about bringing awareness to communities, to homes. Because he's growing and I want him to be able to live the best life that he can, you know, that he can live. And what I do is observe what he likes and everything that Joshua likes. I, I encourage.
That way he's able to be part of a community.
I, I, I, I, I.
So for example, he stopped doing art and I'm like, okay, dude, you don't want to do art anymore, so what do you want to do? And his desire is to be able to play in a group because he plays solo. So what we're doing now, we're extending his understanding of notes so that if he gets the opportunity to play in a, in a, in a group.
Yeah. Music note. Yes. He'll be able to take instruction. So I want to continue to do this and, and, and people like you keep reaching out to me. So the more people reach out to me, the more I'm able to encourage and share my lived experience that people really shouldn't, shouldn't give up. And I'm hoping that over time, as autistic adults show flair for work.
People like you and I can influence policies that would help them be part of a working society and that they'll be able to leave an independent life as they can, they can live. So that's, that's intention. It's a lifelong advocacy for me.
[00:21:23] Speaker A: Very well said. You seem very positive.
But I have to wonder, were there moments of doubt, moments of why, as you were watching him grow up, about his teenage years?
[00:21:46] Speaker B: Absolutely, Absolutely. When I first Got his diagnosis from the age of 5, 20 odd years ago. There was nothing concrete about autism. There were sprinkles.
You know, now you have a lot of people, societies, communities, raising awareness.
There's help like never before. There are parents that you can talk to, families are dealing, dealing with it more now. There's statistics, there's data behind what's happening with autism around, around the world.
So where they doubt. From the very beginning, I was much younger then. I was confused, I was afraid, and I, I was just knocking on doors. And then I wondered whether my son would be able to. Because the diagnosis that I was given was Joshua would not be able to ride a bike, he would not be able to dress himself, he would not basically felt like it was a death sentence. So imagine how I felt as a young mom. And then I put all my energy into providing him with resources and, and I also put in the time. So, because, for example, Keith, if you have a speech therapist and they give, and they do the therapy right, they also give you exercise your child. So at the time, for example, Joshua used to snatch a lot. And I wondered how we could deal with that. And when I asked the speech therapist, she said, okay, you're gonna have to teach him how to stop snatching by turn taking.
For a whole year, I taught my son. I sat on the floor and threw a ball at him and he would throw it at me and I would say the word, your turn and I'll throw the ball. And when he throws the ball back at me, he has to say, my turn. It took him a year to understand that. So there's a lot of energy involved. There's a lot of, you know. Yes, you've got to make the time.
[00:23:47] Speaker A: Yeah, you have to put in the time.
[00:23:52] Speaker B: Yes. So to conquer the fears that I had, I had to implement strategies and things started to work slowly. And when I realized that he loved Thomas the Tank Engine, which he's still obsessed about even at 26, I bought all the series for him. Because it was from Thomas the Tank Engine that Joshua started to learn to spell and started to learn to read. And I would sit down with him and memorize every character because I wanted to engage with, with my child.
So those, I had those fears going through teenage years, you know, the tantrums, the, you know, like I said, I talked about puberty, the hormones, everything changing. And I would just seek for help. I would read books, I would be on the Internet trying to find out how to, how to help my child. So, yeah, so it's it's been a journey. It continues to be a journey because I don't know what, you know, what his desires would be the next day and how do I cope with it if it was something different that I've never seen before, you know, so you still, it's not as bad, but you still have it at the back of your mind that his needs keep changing, his desires will always change as he continues to grow into, you know, well, he's an adult now, but, you know, as he continues to live his life.
[00:25:08] Speaker A: Yeah. It's very important that family support in.
They treat Joshua as normal, but not everyone will outside of the family unit.
How, how do you prepare someone for that or have you given thought to prepare him that not everyone is going to be as understanding, as patient, as kind adds they should.
[00:26:05] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So Joshua himself has had experiences where he's not been treated kindly and he's come to tell me and all I can do is hug him and explain to him that first of all he's loved, absolutely loved by his family. And again, it's okay if people don't like you. You know, that's the way the world is. But he needs to understand that he's loved.
One of the ways that I prepare Joshua, for example, when we go shopping, is to be aware that there are people who are not very understanding in the environment. So if he gets confused, for example, people aren't always going to be patient with him because they don't know him.
[00:26:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:49] Speaker B: If I'm with him, I do explain. Yeah. Or if any other fight, he's never alone anyway because he's not very stranger, danger, aware. So if there's another family member with him or a carer is with him, they always have to explain to him that not everyone's going to be patient with you and it's okay. It does make him sad because he tells me that it makes him sad.
[00:27:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:10] Speaker B: And I just reassure him. That's all I can do.
[00:27:14] Speaker A: It would be downright creepy if it made him happy, joyful.
Yeah.
But.
And so what is his intellectual like and how does his intellect react or interact with the autism through your eyes as his parent.
[00:27:52] Speaker B: Okay. So his comprehension and understanding is not in comparison to his chronological age, that's for certain.
There are certain things that he understands very well.
Yeah. Things that he really likes to do, wants to do.
But in introducing change to him takes, even now, takes a while. He's quite familiar with his surroundings, so it's easy for him to apply his knowledge from repetitions because it is environment. So he knows.
But outside of that, he needs guidance and support. Saying that though Joshua is very intelligent. And I'll give you an example.
Joshua doesn't need to be told how to dress when we're going to church.
Yeah, he, he knows. He is able to understand that I'm going to church and I really need to look smart.
That's. That's amazing. But otherwise, trust me, he wouldn't. He doesn't really care like, you know, whether, whether the clothes match or whether they, they looked sharp. You need, you need to encourage him. So for me, that's, that, that's like, that's a skill. Like, wow. He knows and he needs to, he needs to look at. Look a certain way.
He also understands now, again, applying his intellect the way he wants to look as a man. So he goes through phases where he's been. He's asked to dye his hair blonde, which I thought was amazing. He's asked to cornrow his hair, which I'm like, oh, wow. He's beginning to understand his personality and you know, sharing his views about what he likes. And then he got to the point where he thought, okay, I don't want to do corals anymore. I want to grow an Afro. And then he got tired of that and now he wants to have his hair really short and he wants to have his grooming caught, his. His beard caught every two weeks. So again, that's applying his intellect to his image, you know, so which, which is. Which is super brilliant, you know. Yeah, Yeah, I, I'm really pleased about that. We're coming along with, with. I call them big things because that's self awareness. You know, he's. He's had identity. Yeah.
[00:30:07] Speaker A: Had Joshua or had question rather interacted or ever interacted negatively towards Joshua because of the autism.
And how did he work through that? You mentioned in the book that could. Jim went through a experience and how he dealt with that.
Could you talk more? Because I'm not sensing from you a much of a sibling rivalry, which is so common. I mean, it happens in almost every family.
But there are bumps along the way, of course, in everyday life.
[00:31:26] Speaker B: And.
[00:31:29] Speaker A: Our families should be so tight, Ned. But no one can hurt us like own family.
And so sorry to paint a bleak picture there in case anyone did not know that.
But it's true. And so I want to know more about the bumps and how. Because you said at the very beginning talked about that in the book.
[00:32:18] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:32:18] Speaker A: And getting through it and that it made him a better purchase.
[00:32:26] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:32:26] Speaker A: Talk more about that. Example.
[00:32:31] Speaker B: Yes.
So one of the frustrations Christian shares in the book is the desire of, you know, as a younger brother, he not having his older brother dote on him like he should have because of autism. Instead he had to grow up, up to understand that there are limitations to the things that Joshua can do. And also desiring to go see a movie with his older brother but he couldn't. Instead he'll go with a friend. But now that they're older, that has changed because they can now go watch the movies together.
And one of the things, Christian is quite musical as well. He used to play the drums in the jazz club when he was, was in school and he started to love arts. So the music brought them together, bonded. So because there was a drum in the house and there was a piano in the house that made them bond as siblings. And then Christian said to me that one of the reasons he took art as GCSE during GCSE was because of Joshua, because Joshua is quite naturally artistic. So he wanted to bond with Joshua as well. And funny enough, Christianism a great artist and did very well. But the things that he, he, he would fight about, for example with Joshua, normal things like if they wanted to watch a program about the same time and who's going to watch the TV and you know, sharing food, you know, things that siblings, siblings would argue about. Sometimes Christian would, would be stroppy over. Even now they would argue over how each one person likes their chicken spice, the other person doesn't like their chicken spice. So yeah, sometimes they would argue over it if, if I was cooking, oh, Christian might say, oh mom, you always make it the way Joshua likes the most. Okay, I'm sorry that darling, I will split it and I'll make yours the way, you know. So they have those, those little rifts but fundamentally, fundamentally we haven't had any big thing because it's, it's a family of love.
Now. Christian's difficulties, as I, I would reiterate, has been. There are certain things I would have loved to do with my brother that I've not been able to do. But life is changing. We were in Tel Aviv in February this year and Chris said to me, mom, why don't you stay in the apartment? And Josh and I can go for a walk on the beach and have a drink and I have pictures to show how wonderful a time they share, get together because they could have a cocktail. Of course Joshua's would be non alcoholic, but seeing them do grown up things and it's not because they have a Long conversation. It's just because they just want to be together because there's not so much that Joshua can understand but just knowing that they have a commonality with music and they'll go there singing along is just amazing. And I'm super, super grateful for that. And what I mean is made Christian a better person. When Christian was in school, he was able to raise money for the National Autistic Society in the UK as a means of advocating because his brother was going through that as well. And at my event as well, Christian has had the opportunity to speak about the impact autism or disability has on, on the sibling and how he's dealt with it. To encourage other parents to try not to neglect the other child and to try not to underestimate the impact it has on, on, on, on the other sibling. So it's been, it's been a blessing for us all round. It's made us grow, it's made us tough. But it's also brought its, its very down and shadowy moments in our lives where you wonder if you're not there, what happens happens to Josh. I'm not going to deny that you know it. I just, I do think about it.
[00:36:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
Talk more, more about that and I.
You'd say that there is not a lot.
Oh Judge Wood's ability to understand things is certainly not where his chronological age.
You have a wonderful supporting family and I'm sure that nurture is incredibly important and beneficial to judge.
Do you worry as you get as you progress through life and eventually move on to the next form of live selling to go the whole life. But you said it was a lifelong advocacy which it very much is.
Do you worry about how Joshua will be odd seek to understand things at your God?
[00:38:14] Speaker B: I'm very hopeful because Joshua's not where they told me he would be.
That he's.
[00:38:26] Speaker A: What they told you.
[00:38:28] Speaker B: The doctor diagnosis that we got at five years was that Joshua would not be able to feed himself, would not be able to ride a bike, would not be able to have self help skills. Skills. Yeah.
That was 20 years ago. And I look at my son now, he's able to ride a bike, he's able to swim, he's able to shower, he's able to make his bed, he's able to do the law, is I'm sorry to hoover his room. He's able to tell me what he look wants, how he wants to dress, he's able to tell me what, what he wants to eat, helping out in the kitchen. He loves to bake with his Grandma, you know the things I said he couldn't do. He's doing it. It Right. He. He. He loves his space. He. He has a beautiful life. He. He loves movies. He knows music.
[00:39:12] Speaker A: Did you just say he loved his fates?
[00:39:17] Speaker B: No, he. No, he loves his space.
[00:39:20] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:39:22] Speaker B: Yes, yes, yes.
[00:39:24] Speaker A: Two very different words.
[00:39:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:28] Speaker A: And I mean.
[00:39:30] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Go on.
[00:39:32] Speaker B: So just being. Being able to. You know what? I'm loving my space. This is my time.
[00:39:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:38] Speaker B: Which is. And I don't need you guys here. I love you, but can I just enjoy myself, you know, and being able to tell me about, you know, I want to go to the cinema because I want to go. And he. She goes on his phone and he shows me the dates on Google. He uses the laptop like he's technologically savvy. So there's so much that he's able to do. Wow. And there was a time when I was worried about. I couldn't even see this moment come in my life. And now that I'm seeing this moment come and my. My son's able to pose as a model in my commercials and taking instructions from a photographer. It means the world to me.
And all I'm thinking about now over time is the strategies that will help him live an independent life and to implement things that will stay, support him and to pray and trust God that he will have the best life. And he has his brother Christian, and he has beautiful cousins who love him. And I would hope that as we continue as a good family unit, that they will remain friends and loving with Josh and that Joshua also will cultivate relationships outside of his family unit as opportunities opened for him in. In the music arena. So this is where my head is at now. I'm not thinking beyond that, but am I hopeful? Absolutely hopeful. And I trust God completely.
[00:41:03] Speaker A: That. That's very good.
I can see the background of your faith and why that is so vitally important to your life and how you raise and shepherd your family.
In case there are any inspiring advocates who.
Who want to know more about the book, the advocacy, all want to model after what you did to their own family.
What would be some advice you would give the next generation of advocates? And they exist. Explore advocacy through multiple means like book, CD, concert, etc. Etc. What would be some advice you would give them?
[00:42:35] Speaker B: Well, one thing I'd give is accept the diagnosis. I come from a community where it's hard to. For people to accept disability. I'm Nigerian originally and Nigerians are known for higher academics. They're high achievers. When it comes to academics, and once you're not a doctor, you're not a lawyer or an engineer. Some parents feel like the children haven't made it up, will make it in life, and they hide disability and they don't want to talk about disability. And if you don't accept it, how are you then going to help your child? They have to. My advice is strip of the shame. It's okay to.
To have to deal with this. I feel like there's a grace of God upon me.
You notice that I'm positive with this. This. That's because I'm full of love and it pleased the Lord to allow us go through this.
So my love for my son has been. In spite of all the therapies, the warm and the loving environment that I have provided for my children has been very key in enabling both of them thrive. Especially Joshua, because he doesn't suffer from anxiety.
He knows that he's loved when, when he's been anxious about things, he's been reassured that he's loved. That would be my advice. And also, you've got to take care of yourself because it can be hard.
Yeah, I had to learn to take care of myself because it can be very stressful.
Thankfully, I have a supporting family. My mother is an absolute blessing. She's a retired teacher now. And because of my mom, I kind of knew how to navigate and to get the right resources to be able to help Joshua with learning with colors, with, you know, teaching me how to teach him to accept change apart from what the schools were doing. So I always reach out. I'm always want to ask for help. So people shouldn't be ashamed to ask for help, you know?
[00:44:48] Speaker A: Certainly not.
[00:44:49] Speaker B: Yeah. If you have the opportunity to, to. If someone is offering you rest time, please rest.
Try not to do any work. I. I love just sitting down and just resting and watching something that makes me laugh.
And if I'm not doing that, I have the opportunity to go out with my friends. I love to social. Socialize with my friends as and when I can. I also love to read. I love to read my Bible and praying as again, my faith has helped me because there are times when I'm in despair. I mean, you know, just so I'm so down and I just. I just pray about it. And somehow the care, just the worry and the care just dissipates and, you know, I pick up the baton again and I start to run. And that's where we are now. So that would, that would be my advice and seek help. Seek Help from professionals.
[00:45:38] Speaker A: So you mentioned that next month you and Joshua are going to New York.
[00:45:47] Speaker B: Absolutely. And Christian is coming too. So we've been invited. Yes, Christian.
[00:45:52] Speaker A: And that's a big trip, one would imagine.
What did you like to prepare your children for making that big journey? And how long will you be in New York?
[00:46:17] Speaker B: Okay, so we've started to prepare Joshua with. He's picked the song that he wants to play.
And because Joshua loves performing, I've used choice words. So we've showed him what it means to play at a gala. Obviously, obviously, he sees concerts, so he's aware. And I've reminded him that he played at a Royal Albert hall, and this is going to be another great opportunity to showcase his talent. But even more now that he's absolutely stronger and enjoys performing now. So he knows, and I use choice words like, you know, you're going to be famous. And I see his, like, his eyes light up and I say to him, like, he's the best pianoist and that Joshua is going to make himself proud, you know? You know, because he's going to be performing at the gala and that we're going to be there championing him and supporting him, obviously, because he. He wouldn't know the people there. And knowing that we're there, he's super confident that he's going to have a great time. So he's preparing really hard for. For the performance. And Christian is super excited because Joshua has the opportunity as an adult to play in front of. Of this beautiful community. Because Christian has had the opportunity being musical, he's traveled. He used to be a choir boy. He sang at the famous German cathedral. So Christian has had a stage for a long time. You know, he's been showcased for a long time. So he's super excited that now Joshua is having the stage and the focus is going to be on Joshua. So I'm grateful to God for the opportunity. And again, it's been because of the book that this has come about. So the book is actually reaching and touching people and they want to be able to see what God has done for our lives, basically.
[00:47:58] Speaker A: That's beautiful.
I'm going to be in New York the following month. And so unfortunately, our path will not yet each other. I like to think that both advocates with disabilities and those who have yet to embrace their own disabilities listen and watch this show.
But I'm not naive enough to think that each group in groups within those groups take away the same things from the episodes.
So as my guests, what do you hope that advocates with Disabilities take away from the zebisode. And what do you hope that those who have yet to discover in embrace their disabilities take away from the episode?
[00:49:24] Speaker B: I think I'm hoping that people will be able to take away the determination to continue life and not give up and, and to enjoy life. You know, we're all different. We are all different.
Even if you don't have a disability, you're not perfect.
And I would expect that advocates will continue to be inspired to continue to shout out loud and raise awareness because the more awareness, the more communities become accepting of what families and people with autism are dealing with. Even. I'll give you an example. There's a family friend of ours who came over the summer to stay with us and obviously he knows Josh, but when he stayed with us and read the book, he sat me down and he said, I'm sorry, I didn't realize how much you were dealing with. And I cannot, I cannot stop admiring Joshua. Joshua, watching him live a happy life in spite of his limitations because he could observe that in the family there's so much love that even if Joshua was not able to complete a task, he was okay.
There was no judgment, there was no judging.
So the more people become aware, so the more we raise awareness, the more people become sympathetic and kind of to people with disabilities. So that, that's what I hope people will take away from it and not give up. It's a lifelong thing and it's going to get better the more people know.
[00:51:02] Speaker A: So in case anyone wants to buy the book or learn more about your work, what are the bad ways to do that?
[00:51:18] Speaker B: Yes, thank you very much. So my book is on Amazon. It's is titled Autistic by Elsie Rogers. The subtitle is Leaping over walls whilst living with Autism. But if you type in Autistic by Elsie Rogers, it should come up. Or you can follow me on my social media which is at Instagram at the LC Rogers official so you can find me on there and on Facebook at the LC Rogers official and on Twitter at the LC Rogers official.
[00:51:48] Speaker A: Well, og, thank you so much for coming on today. I hope to talk to you again soon. Enjoy New York and let's keep in touch.
[00:52:07] Speaker B: I will. Thank you so much, Keith. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. I appreciate your time.
[00:52:13] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:52:13] Speaker B: God bless you. Bye bye.
[00:52:14] Speaker A: God bless you have been listening to Disability Empowerment. Now I would like to thank my dads, you are listener and the disability Disability Empowerment team that made this episode possible.
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