[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign welcome to disability empowerment now season four. I'm your host, Keith Murphy de Concini and today I'm talking to dear friends of the show, Nicole, Rebecca and Jacob.
For those of you who don't know them, allow them to introduce who they are.
[00:00:44] Speaker B: Hi, I'm Jacob Yandura. It's nice to see you, Keith. I am the composer of how to Dance in Ohio and a longtime writing partner of Rebecca Greer Milosik.
[00:00:55] Speaker C: Hi, I'm Rebecca Greer Milosik and I'm the book writer and lyricist of how to Dance in Ohio and newer but very devoted Collaborator of Nicole D'Angelo.
[00:01:09] Speaker D: Hi, I'm Nicole D'Angelo. I'm the assistant music director, script consultant and access team member of how to Dance in Ohio.
[00:01:21] Speaker B: I think that was the best popcorn ever.
[00:01:25] Speaker D: I agree.
[00:01:26] Speaker B: In full circle. I think I will. I will stand ground that that was the best.
[00:01:30] Speaker D: And I'm a short time collaborator of Keith.
[00:01:32] Speaker B: Yeah, two minutes, two minute collaborator.
[00:01:39] Speaker A: She did you know she's been secretly signed on for multiple applications.
So let's talk sequel.
I mean, I have really enjoyed doing my first mini series on the musical how to Dance in Ohio. I saw it way more times than I should.
I've listened to the soundtrack way more times than I should. I've eventually harassed the cat way more times than I should. I'm a mega fan and if ever I thought there was a show that would hook me like that, I thought it would be the Phantom of the Opera because of the Majestic.
Do any of you happen to know Andrew Lloyd Webber? I would love to get him on the show.
[00:03:08] Speaker B: I don't know Andrew.
[00:03:10] Speaker A: I'm not joking.
[00:03:12] Speaker B: I don't know Andrew personally, but I. Phantom of the Opera was actually the first show I saw at like the first, like big professional Broadway show when I was nine years old. And that's the show that inspired me to do what I'm doing. And so that show has a very special place in my heart. So I'm glad you like it too.
[00:03:33] Speaker A: Yeah, for me it's Phantom, Lamar and Cats. Without seeing those shows probably in reverse order, then I just namely them. I would not be in.
In love with musical theater such as I am now that I've got. Now that I've made all the planets align and so we're all in the same fudge or spades. Wrapping up that series, which I don't really want to wrap up because there's so many other stories to tell and to go.
But what would you like creating magic lightning in a bottle and seeing it released not as long as we wanted, but on Broadway, because not everyone gets that opportunity.
[00:05:10] Speaker C: I'll jump in there. It always felt like there was a lot of goodwill behind the show. And that doesn't mean that there were challenges or that like, everything went perfectly.
But. But even post Broadway closing, you know, it just feels like the people that like the show and get the show really like it and really get it, and that's how it felt from the inside too. Like you say magic in a bottle, and it, it did feel magical in the room.
[00:05:37] Speaker D: And again, not to.
[00:05:38] Speaker C: To underplay challenges and conflicts and, you know, like, it's hard making theater. But also I always think that, like the, the joy you can hear in the cast album or the joy you felt in the Belasco, that's how it felt for me in the room also.
[00:05:54] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that the joy is the magic to me. And it always has been from day one when, you know, from when we watched the documentary to meeting Alexandra Shiva and to meeting Hal Prince and working with Hal Prince for two years, you know, the magic we learned from him of, you know, carrying on legacy and carrying on, you know, the musical theater art form, you know, and then not only to that, but then to hold a huge responsibility to someone like my sister and our different family members that are. That are autistic to a huge, you know, that then brought into a huge community, you know, there's a huge responsibility. That's. That's the magic to me and, and how big the community grew. And I think the coolest part of it was the first preview, you know, where we had, you know, been working on this show for five or six years. And then, you know, we could keep everything, you know, couldn't let it outside the door. You know, we had to keep everything very secret and, you know, and. And then to, you know, be graced by an audience of over a thousand people and leap into their feet when the 7 ran out on stage, you know, that. That was like the feeling of lightning in a bottle, you know, So I think just how the. The community grew and how I felt like the audience was as much part of the show as the company and the cast and the creative team, you know, So I was a very long winded answer.
[00:07:48] Speaker A: Follow that, Nicole.
[00:07:54] Speaker D: I, I think that the. Even, even the invited dress rehearsal, it was like one of the most magical moments because we had spent all this time in a room crafting. You know, for me it was. It was largely working with Rebecca on different parts of the script. Script, and we would craft like these These things that we would hope would be relatable or even jokes that we would hope would be funny. And, and, and finally getting to see the audience react the way that we hoped was satisfying, but also it was really profound that some of these concepts that I worried might be foreign to non disabled audiences really did resonate with them. And, and that it might have been an audience, you know, a non disabled person. Member. Audience members. First time hearing about inspiration porn and seeing, seeing them have the reaction to.
[00:08:55] Speaker A: It, that is a real chum.
[00:09:00] Speaker D: Yes, that is a real thing.
But seeing, seeing audience react to that in exactly the way that we hoped and then some like just the, the groans that we heard and the. Oh, that was the coolest thing ever was, was having that collective moment where the disabled people in the audience could be like, now you get it. And the non disabled people could, could like you just, you, you just could hear the light bulb go off for them. That. Oh, I never considered that maybe that might be harmful.
[00:09:33] Speaker A: Yeah. And I mean talking about the show with so many of thoughts behind it was exhilarating. And always talking about my ultimate fantasy of just shoving piles of money in your faces to make part two and part three and a movie. It's like, why don't I have the script as a hardbound book in my outfit? Why isn't that available on Amazon? Rebecca, Jacob. Not yet. Make it happen now.
My birthday is on October 30. I will sign copy from all of you. Actually, no, I would like you, Rebecca, to write the sequel with Nicole. Make it happen.
[00:11:00] Speaker C: Wow, that's a pretty quick deadline, Keith.
[00:11:05] Speaker A: Oh, no. You just have to tell me or lie to me. The blood set already begun.
But no, I mean, that's where the musical ends. It's beautiful. And I.
It's been the one constant I've brought up in every episode of the Vantage.
But really it's not so much of fantasy. There's so, so many avenues and so many stories you can tell with this group of characters. And this cat.
Part two would not feel bored.
Unlike Love Never Dies.
[00:12:14] Speaker D: Any more books, anyone?
[00:12:16] Speaker A: And I love that musical. But again, it's like, why?
And it's so real.
I don't know. How many months are we all from the Broadway closing? I'm terrible with that.
How did you feel going through the exhilaration of Creation Senior Creation on stage, Seeing it clothes and then.
I mean, this is your words. Jacob and Rebecca. Broadway experience.
Not everyone gets right out of the gate to Broadway.
Jude Jacks, Andrew Lloyd Webber.
[00:13:31] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean it's been an incredible experience, and I've really reflected on all of the lessons that I've learned, and I really took some time for myself to.
Because, honestly, the Broadway process feels like lightning in a bottle. It's like you were just thrown into it, and you were there to figure it out and problem solve and figure out how to work together. And, you know, much like the show.
So, you know, I've really have thought long and hard about. About that whole experience and going forward, you know, I'm so excited to take everything that I did learn and apply that to other projects and other iterations of this specific show going forward. So, you know, and I'm just so grateful for this opportunity. You know, it's the only thing I've ever wanted to do. And we got here, and we made an impact, and I think it started a big conversation on Broadway. And to me, the lasting impact is the conversation is still happening, and people are wanting, you know, to learn how we made rooms accessible, how we made the theater accessible, you know, so I. I feel like, you know, we're forever part of the fabric of. Of Broadway history, you know, and so I'm very proud and incredibly proud of our team to be willing to make that happen.
So, you know, and it just means the world of, you know, people sending these songs, you know, or them singing clips of the songs from the show like that, that. Because honestly, that's who the show's made for, you know, it's made for, you know, everybody. And so. And to bring their own experiences into, you know, the melodies and the words, that is just the best feeling, you know, hearing. Hearing people sing the music is such a cool feeling.
So, yeah, I'm still reeling it at all, you know, and just very, very excited for the future of it.
[00:15:49] Speaker C: You want to go on a call? Who's up next?
[00:15:52] Speaker D: You can go next.
[00:15:53] Speaker C: Okay, I'll go next.
My, my. When we were out of town in Syracuse, my mom had me write down at the end of every day, like, something that I had learned in this professional experience. And I didn't do it every day on Broadway because it was too much, but. But I did it a lot of days. And the one that always makes me the most emotional is just a note that says, everybody showed up. And it was, again, this was such a community forward show. And, like, the. The team that we had on, like, you know, our side of the table, the three of us, and. And the cast also. And, like, every time we added a new part, like when we got into tech and all the designers were there with us. And then, like, we talk sometimes about, like, the final piece was the audience. And that, you know, we already said, like, that was so moving when we were like, oh, my God, like, it doesn't work without them, you know, But. But I just, like, even though it was a short time on Broadway, I felt like I was at the Blasco almost every single night, even after we opened, because people were here from out of town or people had written to me on Instagram and were, like, excited. And. And also, it was just really fun to be able to go to a Broadway house and be like, I work here. Like, this is my lanyard. Let me in.
And. And that I. I don't take for granted. Like, there's been something really nice about how quiet this year has felt in comparison to last year, which was a lot of, like. A lot of, like, big, big firsts and a lot of learning.
[00:17:26] Speaker D: But.
[00:17:28] Speaker C: But I still. When I think about that experience, it's like, oh, that was so cool how many people just showed up to that theater every night. And then also, there's something beautiful about, you know, like, that Broadway production has ended, but the journey of the show has really just started, you know, Like. Like, everyone mentioned, like, the show will be licensed and people can. And. And all the songs are getting released. Like, we're in the middle of all the publishing.
[00:17:52] Speaker B: And, yeah, it really kind of feels like it just began, you know, And. And the cool thing about it is the Velasco Broadway is one theater, you know, And I honestly can't wait to see it done all over the world, you know, and so, yeah, it's. It's awesome.
Nicole.
[00:18:17] Speaker D: I. I think.
[00:18:19] Speaker A: Don't be shy now, Nicole.
[00:18:22] Speaker D: I needed to give Hope a moment because she. She was very interested in my headphone cords.
But I think the biggest takeaway for me was not just having the opportunity to do all these things and. And having the opportunity to, like. Like, I live in Jersey, so, like, I don't have, like, a home in New York City. So, like, you know, if I have a 2 o'clock appointment and then the show at 7 and nothing to do in between, usually I'd be like, I don't know what to do with my life, but I could just walk into the Belasco and sit and do a puzzle for three hours. Like, that was the co.
We did a lot of puzzles.
But I think the biggest takeaway for me was having the opportunity to not just do the things, but to be the first to do so many things that we were the first ones. And until the end of time. Now, if there's another accessibility team, people are going to say they're the first ones since how to Dance in Ohio or, you know, the next time that there's autistic actors starring in a show or even disabled actors starring the show. This is the first time since how to Dance in Ohio that we are the. The first. And. And the.
The prestige that that has allowed me has been super cool because now, you know where before I would, I would reach out to casting directors or theaters, you know, whenever I see they're posting about whatever show they're doing, Curious Incident or the Glass Menagerie, whatever show they're doing, I would reach out and be like, hey, are you thinking about authentic casting? I would just be like some random person. But now I can be like, hi, I have a drama desk for doing this. Can you please talk to me? And now people will talk to me. Because the reputation of the show precedes me. And having the chance to use that to continue the work that I've been doing is really amazing.
[00:20:26] Speaker A: Yeah. And it allowed me to meet Jungle in person and to find out that, oh, we already know each other. We just had no idea. And then as I'm trying to set up this episode, two of your friends who were actually the season premiere, dm Megan.
And I'm like, okay, great.
Because I wanted to connect the series to this season in Jacob's last episode, last season to that. And then I've. I'm still in touch with a few of the cats. And that's who I just adore, by the way.
And yeah, it goes on and on and on.
And I have people asking me here, how do we get this show here? How do we play it?
You've got the UK premiere coming up, which will have a whole new creative team behind it.
I mean, the world is your oyster.
It's. In a sense, it's.
Again, not everyone gets that right out of the gate. And so how did that feel? That? Sort of invincible. I can do anything.
[00:22:51] Speaker C: Oh, my gosh, I have to jump in and just say I'm. I'm not.
Which is not to say that being on Broadway is not an incredible accomplishment and so amazing. But it is hilarious how, like, it is not necessarily life changing in all of the ways. Like, having the Broadway brand is amazing. But, like, none of us quit our day jobs. Like, we're all still doing the art.
Not. Not in a bad way.
[00:23:18] Speaker A: No.
[00:23:18] Speaker C: Like Nicole said, like, I think it's given all of us New opportunities.
And it's given all of us, like, a cool authority. Like, even though we're still newbies to the Broadway community, like Nicole said, we. We went through this process that had an extra process on top of it that was really unique. That is something that we get to share with, like, the larger Broadway community.
And I'm sure all of us have, like, sent access surveys to our, like, examples of access surveys to our friends to be like, please, please use that. Yeah, yeah. But it's also, like, it's always funny to me how even having major moments in the artist career doesn't change the part of the artist cycle that's like rejection, self doubt.
That part doesn't change at all. What I will say. And it's so funny every time you say right out of the gate, because I've been trying to do this for 17 years before it took 17 years to get a Broadway show, which honestly, I'm glad it took, or I'm okay with it taking as long as it did because the first experience was so memorable and, like, so fulfilling, deeply so. And also, like, you know, we know ourselves as human beings and artists, you know, because we weren't like 23 when I. Not that there's anything wrong with that also, but.
But the patience.
I feel really grateful for the experience.
[00:24:49] Speaker B: Yeah. And I. I think the Broadway part of it is. It's just part of the story. Right. And I think the thing I. I'm excited about is I know I always want to be a student. I, you know, like, I, I don't necessarily. I don't feel invincible whatsoever.
You know, I'm very proud and I'm extremely grateful for all of the opportunities that we've had as writers and then as the show has.
And I just think that we have to be continuing to learn and the UK is going to be such a different experience.
And I'm so excited to learn about how theater works over there because it's very different from how it works here.
So, you know, there's going to be a huge learning curve. And, you know, and I can't wait to learn from my collaborators there. I can't wait to learn from the cast that.
That's assembled, you know, and. And the audience is there, you know, so, you know, I.
I think at the end of the day, you know, I have to write. I have to write every day. And that's the thing that I love and Broadway is, is the ornamentation, you know, is. Is the. Is the thing that is nice to get every once in A while. But at the end of the day, what fulfills my heart is, is what we create. And you know, when Rebecca sends me a piece of a lyric or feedback that, oh, I think we're onto something like that, that's what fuels me. That's what I love.
[00:26:29] Speaker A: Yeah. The only voice fight you two have ever had. And you said this at the reunion and I'm sure John Lennon and Paul McCart, he had more than one fight during the partnership, but you were like, walk it off.
[00:26:57] Speaker B: What was our fight?
[00:26:59] Speaker A: I don't know. You, you judge mentioned that at the reunion concert that when I compared you to the Lennon McCartney of Broadway and compared Rebecca to the female version of feminist Shakespeare because I'm fly like that.
But no, it, it's all what I just said. I said about feeling invincible because I knew you guys didn't feel that and I wanted you to refute that and be able to talk about the realities of this. Watching the floods go around, I mean it wasn't right out of the gate.
It's a long process and I mean you guys had earned your bones on what you did before.
Talk about more about preparing for the UK launch and what, what is that like, how do you think the show will change? I'll be adaptive, adapted and I mean usually church come here from London. They don't are more than they go from here to London.
I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm talking from a fans point of view.
You're professionals. I can never do what you do.
Please hire Nicole to write part two and not me. Not me.
If you want part two to fail, hire me. If you want it to succeed, hire Nicole.
But no talk about what it is like entrusting your baby, your child, your vision to another creative team that will be performing with brand new cats. Of course the pond ads, they'd say what, how, how will you be consultants? Will you have more of a hands on or what? Is that all like?
[00:30:30] Speaker B: Yeah, I think, I think we're not. Things are still being ironed out, so I don't think we're allowed to talk.
[00:30:36] Speaker A: I know that but.
[00:30:39] Speaker B: But what? I will say yes. Rebecca and I, I mean, I don't.
[00:30:43] Speaker A: Know that but like leading you to where I walk you.
[00:30:53] Speaker B: I caught the hook.
But you know, I mean Rebecca and I, yeah, we'll definitely be involved and you know I, I think for me personally I'm excited to you know, work on the couple of things that were on our list for, you know, Broadway previews. But we just didn't get to it or you know, I mean, with Broadway, it's a ticking clock. You're racing against the ticking clock. And you only have a certain amount of hours to rehearse in a day. And you know, and everybody wants to work on something and change, you know, and team lighting wants something. Team sound, team, you know, choreo. And, and so to get everybody's name, needs and wants done in a very short amount of hours in a day is a very difficult thing. So, you know, we have, you know, a list that we, we of small change and they're small, you know, and so we're really excited to.
[00:31:50] Speaker A: But still top secret. Like Disney level top secret. I mean Marvel level top secret.
[00:32:05] Speaker C: You know, they keep it so top secret we. We don't even know all the answers. But also we will have the same creative team in England too. So it's, it's a new cast, but it's the same. It's the Broadway production moving over there. So what's, what's cool? What we don't know fully is like how big the space will be. And like Jacob said, like, we have our short list. I. I have Nicole's longer list.
[00:32:35] Speaker A: Having a longer l.
That shocking that I need to go lay down.
[00:32:48] Speaker B: It does not exist. A short list does not exist.
[00:32:51] Speaker C: No, but all the questions are really good. They're really good. Nicole said, would you send them like on closing day? And you were like, for when you're ready.
[00:32:59] Speaker D: Yeah. Do not open until later.
[00:33:02] Speaker A: Yeah, I can totally imagine Nicole typing that.
So let's believe on Broadway because it was such a significant show, but at the end of the day it was only a show.
A idea of a show that became a show. I know you had to cut a few stones. Why, Jacob, why did you cut any of your beautiful, beautiful heavenly music from that show?
[00:33:53] Speaker B: But thank you.
[00:33:55] Speaker A: Besides that, were there any things that you wanted to include in part one or just keep referring to it? Add part one, kids. I'm going to witch hard enough to make you all welcome. Part two, it's. And that's not a joke. It's gonna be what I keep bringing up to them that could sense.
But is there anything you wanted to include the time constraints for this or that you just couldn't like? I keep mentioning the subtle moment between actually and mel in Act 1 where you get the pre show friendship and it's really quick, but months later it's still stuck in my mind.
Were there any moments like that that ended up just being caught because of one region or another.
[00:35:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:41] Speaker A: Secret to Jacob. I. I can't tell. I don't know.
[00:35:47] Speaker B: You know, I think what we can say is there are moments like that, you know, that I think Rebecca and I might explore putting back in. You know, these are conversations that we haven't necessarily had yet with. With the broader team. So I just want to be careful and what we talk about. But I will say the cutting process is. Is hard, you know, and of course, you know, kill your angels.
[00:36:16] Speaker A: The region.
[00:36:18] Speaker B: Yeah. And you have to. And you have to have a conversation with yourself where you're like, especially with my score, everything. Every note is intention and every phrase is intentional. And I know Nicole will see things, and they will be like, did you mean that? And I was like, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I did.
You know, of course I did.
But, you know, so, you know, when things like that have to be cut, of course it breaks your heart, but you have to look at it and be and have. And say, the peace is greater than me. I have to serve the peace. I have to serve. This is what the audience is responding to. You know, for. I think. I think for us, it's safe to say that, you know, a lot of the Amigo and Ashley material was cut, you know, during workshops. It was really funny.
[00:37:16] Speaker A: Really? Wow.
[00:37:17] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. During the workshops and Syracuse, you know, the constant note was, we want more amigos. We want more Ashley. We want more exploration. We want more why. And then we put it in there, and then once we got to Broadway, it was, we want less Amigo. We want less Ashley. We want. And part of. I mean, I can be cheeky for a minute. Part of me and Rebecca were like, we told you so, but. But we'll humor you and write it.
You know, people wanted the seven, and so, yeah, you know, and. And that was the goal. Right. So if that means cutting a song, you know, which we did, we cut Life Interrupts. It's one of my favorite songs we've ever written, you know, but, you know.
[00:38:04] Speaker A: And he does interrupt, like, dodge. Interrupt a lot.
[00:38:14] Speaker B: And, you know, like, yes, it's Ashley's song, but it applies to everybody on that stage, you know, so, yeah, you know, it's a tricky conversation. But I think the broader thing is you have to think about audience, audiences, attention span, and you have to think about the flow of the show.
And I think where that song came in.
Came in was a lull in the act where the audience was ready to finish the act, you know, so. So, you know, you.
Yeah, you keep some. You lose Some.
But, yeah, we're. We're. I'm excited to dive in. I've had, like, enough of a break to let everything digest and then get back at it.
[00:39:08] Speaker A: What about you, Rebecca?
[00:39:11] Speaker C: Yeah, you know, I had my list of, like. Like, a handful of things I wanted to do that we ran out of time before we froze the show.
And I'm. I'm organized in my own way.
So, like, by closing, I had the draft of the script that had, like, okay, these are all the things that I learned watching it on stage with audiences for two and a half, three months.
And then I would do. And then I have a separate version that Jacob has seen that's like, what if I went totally crazy and I could make any of the change if I wanted? And that one's a little more intense.
[00:39:48] Speaker B: Which I do love. Some of them.
[00:39:51] Speaker C: Some of it's pretty cool.
[00:39:53] Speaker D: Nicole, we'll send you a copy. Yes, please.
[00:39:58] Speaker C: But. But it's tricky because my dad's an engineer, and he loves using this, like, engineering phrase for us and musicals where he's like, at some point, you just gotta kick the engineer out of the room and put the product on the market. I feel like I would never stop making little changes.
[00:40:14] Speaker B: You do.
[00:40:15] Speaker A: And.
[00:40:15] Speaker B: And, like, that's Broadway.
[00:40:17] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:40:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:40:18] Speaker B: Like that. That. That's Broadway, where you have, like. You have to stop. You just. Boom. You gotta go.
[00:40:26] Speaker A: Are done. That shows.
[00:40:30] Speaker C: Yeah. You know, it's. It's funny, too, because, like, if. If we could have six weeks of previews and, like, all that time to, like, try one thing. It's funny how cutting, you know, 30 seconds in one section can feel like cutting three minutes. You know, like, the flow of the show, like Jacob was saying, really is interesting.
Again, I hope we have time enough to do some of the bigger changes.
[00:41:03] Speaker B: But, yeah, and it's fun to, like, you know, dissect both acts, right? Because we also have to remember this is an ensemble show, and you have to. I mean, for us, it was very important that you cared about each person, and I think you do. And.
But, you know, the act one is very much a slow burn in terms of setting everybody up. And then act two is the roller coaster, you know, and so you can definitely feel, you know, it's just how it. You know, this specific show doesn't operate like a normal narrative of the Music man or where you clearly have your protagonist and you have your love interest and, you know, you just follow those characters pretty much. You know, we're following many people, so finding balance and finding Making sure you care about everyone. That was always my biggest.
[00:42:06] Speaker D: I can say that something, something I'm excited for in the UK that we didn't have so much access to here because we were doing, we were too busy breaking too much ground is the UK is far, far ahead of the US in terms of disability on stage.
They recently had the little big things.
They've had some really great disability theater. And so, you know, we're not tasked with making all these things happen for the first time. So some of the things that logistically would have been not impossible but like just, you know, when you're doling out your resources, it would have been really difficult to make certain things happen. There might be a better chance of making them happen in the uk. Like with casting. My dream always was to see a non speaking actor on stage or to see an actor with an intellectual disability on stage to be able to explore other sides of autism. That some of the critiques that we got were this doesn't represent my child and they all have high support needs. Not true. But saying there are a certain kind of autistic.
I think it was really easy for people to just like pin that on us without realizing the logistics that, that, you know, would go into the breaking of the ground of including people who've never had the opportunity to be included before on, on Broadway. And so I'm hoping because the UK is further ahead, maybe now we'll have the opportunity to see some of those things play out.
[00:43:53] Speaker C: Just to add one more thing, Keith, something that I was surprised by was after we made the cast album and I, I started studying a lot of other people's cast albums that I would listen to our cast album and, and just in terms of edits, you know, Jacob and I had to decide like what, what dialogue would be included in the cast album and what wouldn't I. And it's interesting to me to see what narratives are clear even without the dialogue. I don't know if either of you had that experience too of like, oh, I don't know if we like needed any dialogue in this part of the song. Was that just me?
[00:44:35] Speaker B: I think so.
[00:44:40] Speaker C: And that's collaboration.
[00:44:42] Speaker B: That's collaboration, yeah. I mean you need some context. But Keith, that was the hardest thing. Honestly, the cast album was so hard. And because again, they don't tell you how it's done. No one tells you. All they tell you is you have 60 minutes and that is all you're allowed to do.
And you know, it's all based on how much money there is how much money they want to put into it. So, you know, it could go longer. But I mean, making cuts in the show was actually easier than making cuts on the cast album because, you know, you had to make it feel like there isn't a cut in the music and. But you want to include, you know, so many things. That was so tricky. But I'm really proud of. Of what we did in a short amount of time while we were in previews and putting up the show, while we were figuring out the parade.
You know, that was. It was a. It was a tricky time. And they're all different hats, you know, they're all different.
None of them can. None of them work together. So, you know, but I think the thing that. The best piece of advice that Mary Mitchell Campbell said to me in creating the cast album is she said, create an album, don't create a show. You know, and because you think of it as you're going on a road trip and you want to, you know, you have to get to certain things. And so that's hard because, you know, the purist in me and the music theater nerd and the, you know, I'm like. But I want the listener to hear how this motive playing under this and to document this. And it's, you know, oh, it's everything, you know, so that kills my soul a little bit. But, you know, you have to get to the crux of the song.
[00:46:46] Speaker D: So I wanted that too.
He's not alone.
[00:46:51] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, but, you know, I mean, I think the cast album listener is very different from a, you know, a different listener. They're. They're analyzing every motive and every piece of instrumentation and, you know, so, you know, of course I wanted to create the whole, you know, have record the whole score, but, you know, I had to do what was given in front of me.
[00:47:24] Speaker A: So if you had the chance to revisit these characters, would you. I mean, you mentioned, Jacob, that you write every day and yeah, you co wrote this amazing show.
They want new characters. They're now not new characters. We're all writers. And there's this appeal that's low to always creating a new thing, always improving.
But these characters, and particularly where you all leave them at the end of the musical like a sequel would not at all be hard to write creatively judged, to put them in other situations that were relatable, but they're not new characters.
Do you feel the pull between. I want to create something new, something totally original instead of looking back because you sort of music what not Sort of. You did musicalize the documentary and now a sequel. You can write a totally original story with already established characters, but they're not new. And so which, if you had the opportunity, would you go back or would you go to something new? And I'm asking everyone because as a writer, I always find myself at that crossroads in my walk. And so what is it like with that particular musical and characters?
[00:50:17] Speaker C: I mean, I think there's a lot to mind in these characters, too. If we're casting dreams out into the world, I think someone should make it a TV show. I think you're right. Like, let's make it serialized. But personally, I don't need to write any other version of the show. I think, like, there are plenty of writers who could take these characters and do wonderful things with them.
[00:50:41] Speaker A: They should definitely make you a chance.
[00:50:44] Speaker C: Yeah, well, no, Jacob and I should definitely be executive producers and consultants on the TV show.
But.
But I. I've been really excited all year to be working with new characters, to have, like, new. New things boiling or. And a couple of, like, old things. That burner, that now front burner. And you know, like, different themes, different worlds, you know, it keep. Keeps it fresh same.
[00:51:13] Speaker B: I.
I think what's cool, like. Like going into the UK and going into licensing, you know, I think they're going to be different interpretations, you know, and because it's going to be a whole new ca.
Everything is set. You know, the vocal ranges are set. You know, so much of that was in flux throughout the last three years because I tailored everything to that specific person. Right. So, you know, I think the people cast in these roles are definitely. It's set, you know, so I think it's. I'm excited to see different interpretations without the writing changing, actually. I think that's going to be really cool.
But, like, what Rebecca said, I'm. I'm super excited for a new and a new beginning. And I think ultimately that's what is so beautiful about the end of the show is that all seven and everyone. It's a new. They're all, you know, they're all starting anew, you know, and.
And I think that's the whole point of the show and this connection that they made with each other and how much they've grown and how much they've learned about themselves, whether in the workforce or in a relationship or standing up, you know, to people and teaching someone about inspiration porn or, you know, which.
[00:52:42] Speaker A: Again, interview real thing folks. We did not create that term to be juicy and rich gay.
[00:52:56] Speaker D: That was that would. That would have been Stella Young.
[00:52:59] Speaker A: Yes. Yes, Stella Young.
What about you, Nicole? Would you have any gumption to try and get Rebecca back into this ward? Because once again, if you get one, you can, sweetheart. Jacob. Although the next time Jacob, you leave during the summer, please take Majors, shove me in a suit, cage engines, abduct me. No one will care about my dog. Trust me on that. But no, no. Would you want to step in to the writing wall and really explore or create another group of characters that would somehow related to Vince group? Because how Prince granddaughter and I mean, you don't have to stick with Vince group, but would you.
It's there that creative edge of it's my turn now.
[00:54:41] Speaker D: No.
Something I don't think I've ever told Jacob or Rebecca. But something I would love to see is we've seen with shows such as Dear Evan Hansen and the Prom, these young adult companion novels, and I think that something like that would be cool just to flesh out because we do have so much time to explore these seven characters and particularly Mel and Remy are two characters I would love to see fleshed out. And I'm just speaking it into the universe. But that's the only iteration probably or a TV show that I'd want to take these characters on. But that's also just coming from me being somebody who would much rather meddle with other people's work than create my own.
[00:55:25] Speaker B: That's awesome. That's a really cool idea.
[00:55:27] Speaker C: It is a good idea.
[00:55:28] Speaker B: That's a really cool idea.
[00:55:29] Speaker A: So in final for now and I always say for now, good citizen standing invitation on who comes on this show. I've asked certain CATS members to come back anytime because I love people.
Any final for now thoughts on what you three, with a lot of help have created and what's next for you three?
The old stars of disability advocates seem to Broadway theater.
[00:56:29] Speaker C: Well, you know, Jacob and I are working on a new show that is a ghost story about gentrification. I'll say.
But it's funny because even just in the early, early, early stages and I'm putting this recorded for life to be held to this. I just keep thinking about how much I already miss Nicole because they're like, I love researching, but Nicole's a better researcher.
[00:56:57] Speaker A: Really, really glad you put that out into the universe for all because I said in the season premier talking to Nicole's friends in trying to solve the inaccessibility of Broad Red Theta, that we would probably need gazillions of Nicoles and they all just smocked up until. I totally agree with you, Rebecca, on. You mention Nicole, but I do same.
[00:57:44] Speaker B: I mean, I mean, like how we've, you know, I think every good collaborator has found their shorthand with each other and we've really found that with Nicole in the last couple of years, you know, and so, you know, I think it's exciting to end one project and move on to another one and. And who knows where that will take us. Well, and it's like that's our secret. Coffee tomorrow, Rebecca.
[00:58:10] Speaker D: Oh, good. Okay.
[00:58:14] Speaker B: To be honest though, my computer is about to die. I am so sorry. I do have to go. I just, I. I didn't want to end in the middle of a sentence or think. I think I just stormed off and.
[00:58:28] Speaker A: Yeah. No.
[00:58:34] Speaker B: Yes.
Well, thank you so much, Keith. And it's, it's. Thank you for being such a. A beautiful leader of the community and a beautiful fan and.
[00:58:56] Speaker A: No Nicole, any.
Thank you, Jacob. Any final thought? Nicole on.
[00:59:05] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna sign off. Okay. Bye, guys. Thank you, everybody.
[00:59:09] Speaker D: Bye.
[00:59:10] Speaker A: Bye.
[00:59:10] Speaker B: Bye.
[00:59:14] Speaker D: I never want to work with either of them ever again.
[00:59:17] Speaker A: Oh my gosh.
So any final thoughts on what both of you have learned or would advise other up and coming creators who want to get into working in Theta? Judson General.
[00:59:48] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah, I have like a really easy answer for this that I always say, which is that I, I really believe that like in, in the arts and showbiz, which are not always the same thing.
[01:00:05] Speaker D: It.
[01:00:05] Speaker C: It does take.
Yeah. Some, some talent, majority tenacity, and then timing, which is my word for luck, which is like you could be the most talented person working in New York City or not working in New York City and like never have your opportunity. So much of it is just magic, fairy dust and, and luck. But, but the tenacity, I would say, is 80%. Like, you just have to outlast everybody else and just keep doing it. Yes.
[01:00:38] Speaker A: What about you, Nicole?
[01:00:41] Speaker D: Oh, I think the.
That just always remembering that there's no one path and that it's never linear when it comes to this field.
Those. Those are two great things to remember. And I wish it was as easy as just saying create and, you know, and everything will happen. But I think that this show in particular is good evidence to me that if something is meant for you, it will find its way to you. Because my, my origins with the show were auditioning and then missing my call back and then being like, well, that was. That's it forever. And getting a call months and months later and obviously being, you know, being Involved up, up, up to Broadway. Like, it just. It's just proof that sometimes when a project's meant for you, no matter what you do, it will find its way.
[01:01:35] Speaker A: And so what question that I always end every episode on. And thank you so much for coming back.
The planets aligned. Hopefully that will be the same for the dino wheel. I'm gonna make you all sit with the table.
I like to. You think I'm joking. I'm not.
I like to think that both advocates with disabilities and those who have yet to discover or embrace their own disabilities legend and watch this program, but I'm not naive enough to think that each group, in groups within those groups take the same things away from every episode.
So what do you hold that advocates with disabilities take away from the amazing journey that how to Dance in Ohio has had on Broadway and will in the future in the UK and hopefully all the country have not all over the world. And what do you hope that how to Dance in Ohio continues to teach people who have yet to discover our embrace their own disabilities?
No pressure. None at all.
[01:03:38] Speaker D: Well, I think something that's exciting for me about the work that we did and something that's important to remember is that, like, we haven't yet seen the impact of Ohio on Broadway. That. That's. That's yet to come. Not because.
Not because people aren't taking our cues, but because the shows that we're seeing now, we're already in development, you know, we're already in motion. So I'm excited to see in future Broadway seasons the impact that has had. And so that's what I would say to advocates is you never know when work that you've done is going to have an impact. And just trust that everything you do has an impact. And for people who don't haven't discovered their disability or embraced their disability yet, the happiest saying is, unless you die young, you too will be disabled.
Why not break down barriers and stigma?
[01:04:49] Speaker A: Wow, that's the happy one.
[01:04:55] Speaker D: Don't worry. Disability's coming for you too.
[01:05:01] Speaker A: Damn. Nicole, this aged and above to talk show. Rebecca, Follow that.
[01:05:18] Speaker C: First of all, I love that.
[01:05:20] Speaker A: And yeah, I, I do do Nicor.
[01:05:23] Speaker C: I, I think something Nicole and I tried to do was create multiple access points in the show for.
For people who would be bringing their own, like, experiences or feelings about disability that were going to be really, really like a really wide range, you know, And I can even say my experience working on the show when I started it and felt like, oh, my gosh, I don't know anything about this that I would say at some point when Nicole and I were deep in it and I learned so much, I realized, wow, I really don't know anything about that. I still have so much more to learn.
But it was so nice to have Nicole, who I would say was much further along the journey of disability advocacy, to, like, quite often hold my hand, sometimes literally hold my.
[01:06:20] Speaker A: I can imagine that.
[01:06:23] Speaker C: And again, like, sometimes successfully, not always successful to leave, but I do think that, again, like, what do I hope people take away from the show? I hope that what they take away reflects that wide range of experiences that we knew would be coming to it. Like, you know, we wanted to make sure that. That.
That the storyline about the reporter and the inspiration part, that we. We knew that we kind of had to create a primer within the show itself of how to view the show. And honestly, like, that was narratively tricky, but. But important, I think. And some people would see that and be like, I've known about this for years. Okay, fine. And some people thought and were like, wow, I've never heard of this.
I'm so happy to know that this exists. And some people saw it and didn't understand it and left the show and were like, that was so inspiring.
[01:07:18] Speaker D: It sure were.
[01:07:19] Speaker C: That's what I mean by, like, sometimes successfully, sometimes not successfully. And that's just, like, one version of that. But I. I hope that we gave people enough to grab on, no matter what part of their journey they're on, whether they're disabled themselves or whether they love someone disabled or whether they just walked in not knowing anything and. And. And had an open heart to learn.
[01:07:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
I mean, I will always punch for part two and a movie, because Rent, 10 years after it closed, they somehow got almost all the cats back for a movie production. And so never say never. But these characters, I can't imagine how often they were in your head and that they're always in mind, because I'm always curious as to where are they now?
You should have the beginning of marriages and Drew. Drew. Thank you, Relationship. Do they go the distance or do they flame out? I mean, they flame out.
[01:09:00] Speaker C: We all know it. Come on.
[01:09:05] Speaker A: Well, I. I want to have another episode. Sledge therapy section. Will you want that fat for me? But I just cannot properly articulate my infinite respect for both of you and Jacob, for the work that you have done and continue to do as a fan, as a professional, as the advocate.
Thank you all for changing my life and for how I look and view musical theater and what's possible for people with disabilities.
You're always welcome on this program and I'll see you at dinner in December.
And that's final. Thank you so much, Nicole, Rebecca and Jacob.
Truly, you made more of a mark. And we didn't even talk about Jacob's Instagram and how I would find posts where people would tag and they would say, here's I just saw how to dance in Ohio for the 25th, 26th, 27th time. And I'm like, and I thought I was upset with musical theater. That's incredible. And I just talk to you guys forever. Until next time, my friends. Have a wonderful week.
[01:11:30] Speaker D: Thank you, Keith.
[01:11:31] Speaker C: So nice to be on.
[01:11:34] Speaker D: Bye bye.
[01:11:35] Speaker C: Bye guys.
[01:11:45] Speaker A: You have been listening to Disability Empowerment Now. I would like to thank my dads. You are listener and the disability empowerment team that made this episode possible.
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