Episode Transcript
[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome to disability empowerment. Now I'm your host, Keith Murphy Dinsini. Today I'm talking to Ariel Reich, who was part of the directing team and on the accessibility to of the musical how to dance in Ohio. Aliyah, welcome to the show.
[00:00:40] Speaker B: Thank you. Thanks for having me, Keith.
[00:00:43] Speaker A: So let's start with how you buds became aware of this groundbreaking musical.
[00:00:56] Speaker B: Great question. It's a pretty emotional story.
So one of my best friends, who I was in the band's visit with, saw the playbill article that was released announcing that the show was coming to Broadway. And she sent me the link to the article, and she was like, have you seen this? And I was like, no. And instantly started sobbing.
I hadn't heard anything about the show. I wasn't aware of it up to that point.
And my own autism diagnosis was not long before that. And before this experience, I had been kind of moving through a year of my life personally where I wasn't doing so well. And at this point, when my friend sent me this article, I was kind of on this journey of coming up for air and coming up for life after a period of not doing so well and struggling a bit.
My personal world. And one of the big questions I had for myself is, how do I come back to the world? How do I come back to the industry after being unwell?
And she sent me this article out of the blue. And as I said, I instantly started sobbing. And I just couldn't believe that a show like that existed, that it was coming to Broadway, that there was so much authentic representation happening in the casting, and whether I was going to be involved with it in some way or not, I just felt this profoundly deep affirmation. It was almost like there was a little whisper in my ear saying, hey, there's room for you. It's okay to be who you are and do what you love.
And.
Yeah. And that affirmation only grew from that point.
So a few months later, I stumbled across a post about the stage directors and choreographers foundation announcing a directing fellowship for how to dance in Ohio on Broadway. And the fact that I saw it is pretty, pretty uncanny because I don't follow people online that I don't know or haven't met unless it's, like an organization or a musician that I love or, you know, an account that posts a daily affirmation that might, you know, lift my spirits when I open my phone. I have a boundary for myself that I don't.
I don't follow people that I don't have any personal connection with or haven't at least met face to face. So, for example, I was not following Sammy candled online. I had never met her, but I just somehow stumbled across a post that she made sharing the SDCF announcement, and that the show was looking for a directing fellow. And I saw that and my eyes widened and my jaw kind of hit the floor, and I thought, that has my name written all over it.
And so I applied and.
And then I was asked to meet with her for an interview via Zoom. And that alignment felt really clear from the very beginning.
And then I found out that I was joining the directing team. And it all happened very fast. It was, I think, less than two weeks before I was in pre production and then starting rehearsals. So, pretty wild story.
Yeah. But I also love to share stories like this because I think it's so easy for people who have dreams or big ideas to think, oh, it's so far out there. Not me, it's not possible. But anytime I have a wildly affirming moment of alignment in my life, I like to share it when I can, just to kind of offer that reminder to anybody who needs it, which I think is everyone, that what's meant for you will not pass you by. So much easier said than done or heard than felt. But I think that reminder is important. It's important for me to hear and even reflect on just by telling this story.
So that's how I came to the show.
And I guess I should touch a little bit on why seeing that announcement felt so aligned for me.
The reason it kind of, like, shocked me so much to see the alignment and feel like it had my name written all over it is because I don't only work in the performing arts directly, but I also have a tenure background in arts and medicine, and I do a lot of work at the intersection of the arts and healthcare. And specifically, in the year leading up to this moment, I had been curating and developing creative arts and mindfulness based practices for people with cognitive loss and developmental disabilities.
And over the last ten years, in my arts and health and arts and public health career, I've done a lot of disability arts work. And one of the other things that I do is adaptive movement. I'm on the teaching artists faculty of the Mark Morris Stance group, Stance for Parkinson's disease program. And so everything that this show is kind of just felt like the ultimate integration and intersection of who I am personally and also all of these elements of my career endeavors. And so, yeah, I've kind of always had one hand in the arts and health world and one hand in the performing arts world.
No matter what hat I'm wearing. I also am an actor.
But this was kind of the first time where it felt like it was all coming to a head. And so it was very, very, very special.
[00:07:07] Speaker A: Yeah, it was a beautiful curveball of sorts of Broadway, because, I mean, it was way patch overdue, but not only the subject matter, but I touched on this question in an interview with one of the CADS members. I can't really recall any other documentary that got successfully ported to a Broadway musical. You hear about movies to Broadway, Broadway to movies all the time.
I don't know a lot of documentaries that make the jump to Broadway.
[00:08:26] Speaker B: That's a great point.
[00:08:29] Speaker A: What was that like, viewing the short material? Because it's a brilliant, very poignant documentary of the same title. And like we were talking before we recorded, I started the recording. There's not a lot of elites, in my view, creative difference. There is one major, major revelation that is unique to the Broadway production, and it needs to be in there.
But otherwise, it's not like the writer in the musician or cherry picking.
It's just an extremely faithful representation to not only the real life characters, real life people, rather, but also to the swords material in general.
So what was like viewing the subject?
[00:09:59] Speaker B: That's a great question, and also just a beautiful reflection that you just shared.
I'll start with, what was it like viewing the source material?
It was honestly really overwhelming and again, very emotional. I'll probably be using the word emotional a lot throughout this interview because it is.
[00:10:18] Speaker A: Because there's not a better way to describe watching that documentary.
[00:10:32] Speaker B: Yeah. So, yeah, it was very overwhelming and emotional for me to watch the documentary for a couple of reasons. One, like I said, I had been kind of on a couple years long journey of coming into this awareness of myself that I'm autistic. That was kind of putting, like, connecting so many dots of a lifetime of not understanding why I struggled in certain ways. And so to see a community reflected in the documentary that I saw myself in was really powerful. And same with the production on Broadway, but also, as I was sharing about the work that I do professionally as an artist in residence or as a practitioner, I also saw myself in that way in the documentary, which was wild. I mean, the work that you see in the documentary of bringing an artistic, creative experience to a community, that's work that I do.
Just last February, I was in Tucson, Arizona, working with a few disability day programs and bringing music, dance, creative poetry, writing, mindfulness to those groups over the course of a residency. And so I also saw myself reflected in that way and just felt like, oh, these are my people, and also, I wanna go work with them. Which, to be honest, amigo, family counseling is dear to my heart in the context of it being shared on stage, but also the real place and the real people who I've gotten to meet and connect with.
Doctor Amigo is now a dear friend of mine, and I probably will make it to Ohio and to Amigo family counseling and do some sort of artist in residence visit with them and kind of bring what I do to their community there.
[00:12:34] Speaker A: Yeah, he would be a dream interview because he. And he. He came to I don't know how many showings of the Broadway musical, but he's.
He's.
He could speak to the documentary to actually starting the counseling service, and then seeing a transition to a Broadway musical, that would be a pre question interview that I could just shut up and let him take the will, which I really love to do.
But, yeah, I mean, it's like, I can't even imagine what it was like for the clientele to see themselves ten years Junior acted on, not mimic, because that's a very important distinction that one of the actors made, which it's very, very poignant, very, very true to form, but it must be very surreal to me.
And, I mean, that's another question. How does a person like Doctor Amigo keep going to the show again and again and again? And, I mean, I saw it six times, including the Broadway reunion show, which was fabulous, by the way.
[00:15:04] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. It was a special night, but I.
[00:15:07] Speaker A: Don'T really do that. At most, I'd see music two or three times, but this.
I mean, the music hooked me. And then when you. When I first saw it, the soundtrack wasn't out yet. In their words, there's very irrational fear that maybe you wouldn't release that soundtrack for whatever reason. And so I kept going and going. And then on the second time, I got the tickets through TDF, a wonderful organization.
And the second time, they put me in the rope.
The rope, um, forgot the word in front, the robe behind me.
Some friends of Jacob, the composer, had come, and he was there, state saying hello before the performance hits part, no words in the third odd second row. And I couldn't help but overhear because I'm literally right there.
Right.
And so I just make the impulse move to after he's done, before he goes back to immediately tap and also grab his arm, which I normally wouldn't do to anyone, but I would like. I had a bunch of my bid cards in my hand, and I'm like, dei trips over here. You're the composer. It's a fantastic show. I run this podcast. I love to interview the actors or anyone involved with it. And so literally, it would fate that TDM, because TDF when you're nothing a part of the accessibility program. And at that time, I wasn't every day, and I'm pretty sure the venue does. That's not CDF. The venue randomizes these seats. And so it should happen by chance that the venue that morning put me in that seat to where I was able to meet Jacob.
And so that's how I became very intimately connected to this Amir Jaguar. I always like to tell that story because it goes to the inner connectiveness of the love of theater, chance meetings, and how this whole series came to be about was if that meeting with Jacob had not happened, I don't think I would be six or seven interviews deep into really learning as much as I can about every aspect of this groundbreaking musical. Sorry, that was a long winded explanation that is going up. Your example of a very personal connection on how judge a fan, judge a everyday theater goer who really was struggling to understand how I would have relate to the swords material because I'm so far removed away from my high school years and I'm not artistic, but still, it's the removal of the high school. Can I go back in time and really relate as much as I can?
The music made it very easy to do that.
[00:20:58] Speaker B: Yeah. Music is a powerful thing, and that's, you know, that's a huge part of why there's a lot of research on music and memory and music.
[00:21:08] Speaker A: I don't really need to see myself represented in every production. Like, I kept referring to vids or making analogies to the prom because the music is so similar.
And I saw that twice, and I loved it to pieces because the music was so euphoric that it judge transported you to that plate in time, and you really didn't care what plates in time it was. And there this analogy that with the poem, it's all about getting to that third dance. And same with how to dance in Ohio, it's all about getting not only all the characters to that dance, but getting drew and Meredith to get the. So that they like the last line of the show. It's brilliant. It's 1234. It's literally drew and narrative. Spoiler alert.
Grad spin hands. And, I mean, I hope I can edit that out if you want. But it's just that analogy of the payoff is so similar, and so you get so emotionally invested in these characters so that when you do get a. That pay off, it's EU, boy, I'm.
[00:23:37] Speaker B: So glad you had that experience.
[00:23:39] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's just like the only thing mentioned between the two blades, which are two very different music.
[00:23:56] Speaker B: Yeah, totally different.
[00:23:58] Speaker A: One couple kids is in the end, and one does it, and they both end with a dance. But that slow burn throughout the entire musical is the analogy that I.
And the music styles, to me, was similar enough to where it was like, I know these are very different stories, but they're in the same vein almost in terms of the overall messages that they are trying to convey and to end up conveying successfully about inclusion, about accepting who you are, about finding a like minded community filled with people both who you think would be in that community and people who you necessarily wouldn't think. And bridging that gap adds social commentary goals in terms of musicals, willingly done. And I'm looking at it from an advocate's point of view. And so that's another wrong tangent, but I wanted to give you that feedback because it's like every time I think of the music and the words, and I'll interview the writer later on, it's all right there and it's judged, and that's what kept me coming back. It was the story, and I seeing these characters go through the dramatic changes they go through and.
But, yeah, it was above all the music and the fact that it wouldn't leave my head every time I feed her. So unless you talk.
[00:27:07] Speaker B: No, I'm so glad that you had that experience. And in everything that you were sharing, I heard a lot of this quality of transcendence, which when you talk about the arts as medicine or the arts as healthcare or the arts as public health, you know, in research, there's this quality of transcendence that happens through artistic experience in whatever modality that may be, where your brain chemistry literally shifts, and that can be complementary to medical modalities of healing. And so this quality of transcendence is one that I'm always really interested in and fascinated, and I'm so glad that you had that experience. And there's probably some chemistry in there that is part of what kept you coming back.
But that also brings back this questions you were asking earlier about the documentary being reflected on stage and the real life community members to the characters and what it must have been like for them to see themselves on stage in that way. And, you know, your curiosity about what it was like for me, and this word reflection is the word that kind of keeps coming to me. And I think that's. I think that's part of what you were getting at when you were exploring this idea of the uniqueness of a documentary translating on stage. And, and, you know, that curiosity of what must that have been like for these people to look at themselves in this capacity and for me to be a part of this or to witness this. And I think it's that quality of reflection, seeing yourself reflected in some way that feels affirming but also beautiful, you know, and I think. I think that is very powerful. And, yeah, and, you know, I got to watch a number of the real life amigo, family counseling members watch themselves on stage. I've met a lot of them. I've watched them witness the show. And it brings me back to that word emotional.
[00:29:39] Speaker A: That, like, because I bags of actors who were in the show that same question, because I know a lot of the real life counterparts came to, if nothing, Syracuse production, the opening night of Broadway. And, I mean, it, it's like, yeah.
[00:30:11] Speaker B: They got, they got to share our curtain call. It was very, very cool.
[00:30:14] Speaker A: And that, and, I mean, what, what was some of the feedback? Were they just elated or alarmed or stunned? I mean, I'm trying to grabs at words and emotions in trying to picture what it would be like to see my life portrayed on stage and how gobsmacked I would be to actually witness that.
[00:31:02] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, it's a great question, and unfortunately, the reality is I don't have an answer because I'm not them. And each one of them is different, and each person had their own experience.
But watching the relationships that formed, in some cases over the couple of years of the show's development or, you know, people who were experiencing it for the first time on opening, it was, it was very cool and, and very beautiful to watch. Um, but if you get to talk to, to Doctor Amigo and, you know, have him talk to you about the journey of watching the documentary go from capturing their, their real life to coming and being reflected onto the Broadway stage, I bet he would have a more direct insight to that. But I can tell you, connecting with all of them and being around all of them, there was definitely a buzz and such a love and joy between all of us and all of them and their families.
And I think also just a lot of gratitude similarly to fans at the stage door. And even, you know, even people like you in your email when you know, we were connected. And then you reached out to me, you know, this, this idea of, you know, people seeing. Seeing something that they've never seen before that draws them in in a way that is kind of inexplicable, or for some people, seeing themselves reflected in a way they've never seen before.
It's very powerful. It's very powerful. It's also back to this word community, which. Which you threw in a little while ago. Yeah, we all know what I was saying. We all need it. We all need community. And, you know, as I, as I reflect on my experience, you know, there were so many. There are so many things I could say about the experience artistically, creatively, professionally.
But I think the, the deepest impact for me is the community, and in ways that honestly probably are life saving.
[00:33:23] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, I. I also showed as much as I did, particularly the final performance, nothing.
I didn't feel obligated to be there. That Sona, the word I would use.
I felt a solemn duty to be there, though, because of the remarkable significance that the show represented. And I remember reflecting after the.
Seeing the documentary, I would like how.
I mean, this is almost like.
But how?
And I've told several of the cats members that in my head, you guys have already shot the movie. Rebecca and Jacob have already finished part two, and they're in pre production for part three. Now, this is just a fan's reaction, and I'm trying to keep you all gainfully employed late in my head and my creativity, it's going bananas.
[00:35:22] Speaker B: You know, that's such a. Such a beautiful and important reflection, because I think I, no matter what the show is or what the subject matter is, I think anybody's goal when producing some sort of theatrical experience is for people to leave with questions or curiosity or wanting more. And so the fact that you have all of this rumination going on in your brain about how there could be more is huge and beautiful, and I love that you were there on closing. You got to watch us all cry.
But, you know, it's interesting that you said, you know, you didn't feel this obligation to be there, but there was something in you that felt like you had to be there. And my question to you is.
Yeah. Would you say that that came from going back to this idea of community, a sense of belonging.
[00:36:22] Speaker A: In a way, in the mold? So since I know a lot of the cats, and some of them I even consider friends, which blows my mind sky high. But it's like, I don't have autism. I've been mistaken for autism.
Uh, autistic. Because of my social anxiety.
I know my job really makes it seem like I don't have any social anxiety whatsoever, but I do. I have cerebral palsy. I don't need to see myself on stage.
But, yeah, it was a community response, and I'm a hopeless romantic and narrative and drew. And the first time I saw the show, act one finale, it could have gone either way. You could have started act two by hearing major doesn't really care for Drew at all. But to open that. To open the second act with she dodds and to watch that journey and then to see how delicate and respectful you read these characters and, like, there's a point in early in act one where you get the very real hint of a previous friendship or whatever ship between Mel and actually.
And you get sort of pay off at near the end of act two with reincarnation.
But that I'm like, tell me more. Because that for such a beautiful moment, until if I was giving writing advice, which would scare the vegets out of me, that would be where I would like it to go, because it.
And several of the TAS members have said something similar about seeing representation in the queer and LGBTQ community, and that's very important. And, again, don't need to see myself at all, but it's observing the community and the swell of people you got from the community at every single show, particularly the finale. And then following Jacob on Instagram, where he captions of people saying, we've seen this show upwards of almost 30 times. And unlike.
And so it's that curiosity of what. Why. How I'm to. I'm. I'm gonna use this term to describe myself very happily. I'm a musical theater freak.
I will live and die in musical theater, but I've never, ever heard of a couple or a family going to see any musical upwards of that. And that was like. That kept me going as well, kids. I'm like, I want to understand what it is about this musical that gets the same people to come back again and again and again. Cause that's mind boggling to me, and I still haven't figured it out, but.
[00:42:08] Speaker B: I think it would. I think it's something that.
[00:42:11] Speaker A: And it was that curiosity of.
I know this show is groundbreaking in so many ways, but that swell of support to regeed that many times. What's like. What's happening?
How did they manage to get Aladdin's lamp and magic out of the lamp and permeate it throughout every product?
[00:42:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I think it. I think it, you know, it's all coming back to this quality of community and. And reach, reaching people who needed a. What the show offered them. And, you know, like you were saying, families were coming multiple times. We also had people who traveled from the other side of the world to come and experience this.
[00:43:15] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:43:17] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think, you know, when I brought up that word belonging before, we talked about this as we were preparing for the interview, and the fact that I'm autistic. You're not, and somehow this show still, you know, is huge and inviting and healing to both of us. And, you know, I think that that sense of community and belonging is all. Is all part of that. And I think a lot of people saw themselves reflected in this idea of, you are welcome here, whether they're autistic or not. So while we had a huge. A huge flux of the autistic community coming and seeing themselves and feeling celebrated, there are also so many people who are not autistic who felt this sense of invitation and welcomeness and acceptance and safety, even though that specific detail is maybe not one that applies to them. I've had people come up to me who have chronic illness with tears in their eyes at intermission thanking me and our team that something like this exists. And for you with CP, I think just from the communication I've received from people, which is a fraction in comparison to network at large, I think anybody who's experienced feeling othered in any type of way can relate to that. And. And, you know, even talking about that relationship between Mel and Ashley, you know, you don't have to know the backstory of their relationship to either want to know more or just to feel connected to it. Like, I think anybody can relate to this idea of losing a. Losing a depth of once had with someone and, you know, that and then contending with the feelings around that and making sense of it, and, you know, and then you. You seem to have, like, a really deep love for the relationship between Drew and Meredith and not knowing where it's going to go and then the satisfaction when they break that touch barrier right at the end. And, you know, it also just makes me think of that line. I like to socialize, but don't know how. You know, I think there's so many people who. I think a lot of people just assume that myself or people in this community don't want to connect. But that's not true. Sometimes it could be true everybody's different. But more often than not, the case is I actually want to connect deeply, but there are barriers that I have to navigate around for that to feel accessible to me.
And I think that's also part of why you experienced what you expressed as such a payoff at the end when you've watched this whole journey of so many barriers to connection and specifically to touch, and when you experience that right at the end.
[00:46:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, there's something to be said about the headitive, normative role romance and where they're the main focus.
You really can't call any of these characters. The main characters are the main character because it's very much a ensemble show, and I love how almost everyone is involved in everyone else's music number. I find that extremely retracting to see how even judge that act. It's slowly building to the finale where they all, the characters all feel like a real family.
[00:47:31] Speaker B: Yeah. It all comes back to this quality of community and support.
I think that also speaks to, you know, your curiosity about what is it that brings people back and, you know, why is it that you, as someone who maybe sees shows two or three times, came and saw this one six times.
I am very similar to you. I oftentimes either miss shows entirely. Orlando, you know, maybe see them once, because, you know, the other side of the theater where the audience is, is not the most accessible to me. I think also, like, you know, when what you see on stage is offering this message of, you are welcome here in a really big way, and then also in the community, in the audience, there's this welcoming invitation of, you are welcome here to come as you are, be as you are, express yourself as you are, need what you need.
I think that depth of invitation also could be something that brings people back. And part of my job, particularly through previews, was to be in the audience watching previews and taking notes. And I was a little nervous about how that was going to go for my nervous system. But first of all, being engaged with the material and, you know, excited about it all helped. But.
[00:48:56] Speaker A: Go out another plug for TDF. TDF had legally spoiled me as a feeder. Go rotten. They're.
They're offerings on are so incredible.
So TDF is a game changer like Fitz musical. I mean, the accessibility team drops that angle.
And to have not only the authentic cat sting, which is huge and much beyond it at any of the time Broadway had tried to do that, they would have just cast any old actor neurotypical to play the artistic characters. There's no doubt of in my mind that would have happened. But this time, not only the authentic cats but the fact that there were a texting members involved in pretty much a lot of. Not all. All the creativity decisions. The accessibility team.
I remember talking to Nicole, who I've known for years through social media, and we just bumped into each other, the Broadway reunion, and we later connected had I love them so much, deb connection. And we were texting that, and she's like, it's so great to be able to talk to someone who actually understands vids pods. So before I let you go, and I'm tempted to try to keep you for another 5 hours, I say that to everyone involved in this production because I really want to soak it all in. If I can't get you all back on the stage to soak that much of it in. But what would you like being a part of not only the director team, but also to have something shamefully unique like the accessibility team, and then. And then write the lead show, have it be recognized in such a way to where you win a drama decks award? What was that like?
[00:52:37] Speaker B: Oh my gosh.
[00:52:38] Speaker A: That would like three or four questions. I apologize.
[00:52:44] Speaker B: No, it's okay. I was gonna say you might have to keep me for five more hours. Now, for me to answer that cohesively, it really feels impossible to be concise. I honestly always joke and say I could write a book about the experience and also.
Okay.
But also, you know, I think it's something I'm still processing, to be honest. You know, for me, while, like we say in the show, when you meet one autistic person, you've met one autistic person. This autistic person, me.
Sometimes it takes a little while for something to fully process and ruminate for me. And so I think in some ways, I'll probably be processing it for the rest of my life to certain degrees.
But now that I've had a little bit more space and time, I mean, the word really is just profound on so many levels.
Profound in every way, in the ways that it was hard and challenging, in the ways that it was beautiful and shatteringly affirming and healing and yeah, I think also it was such a unique experience in that, like you were saying, there was autistic representation in many departments on the production. And for me, I was that representation on the directing team and, you know, one of. One of the autistic members of the creative team at large, and then also ended up working on the accessibility team as the accessibility liaison for the company backstage. And so there was also this unique level of invitation to be a part of the conversation in a way that may not have been as overt or obvious if I was as working in a creative assistant or associate position on just any production.
And so I think to feel valued in a way that felt unique and special.
My first time working on a directing team of a Broadway show was pretty. Pretty unique.
And, yeah, what was it like? Oh, my God, it's such a. Such an impossible question to answer so many things, but I think, more than anything, it just affirmed.
It just affirmed my drive and passion to do everything I can to show up and in ways that put me in a position to help move that needle forward on accessibility and inclusion in the theater and, you know, the entertainment community at large.
And, yeah, I mean, I think I received a letter from someone I directed in shortly after we closed the show. I directed an industry presentation of a new musical about chronic illness. And after that process, I received a letter from someone who was part of it that was incredibly moving. And I won't get into the details of it for, you know, that person's personal privacy, but I think the thing that rocked me the most about it is, I think what everything boils down to for me is all I've ever wanted or hoped to do is make people feel less alone. And being able to show up in roles that put me in a position to do that, whether it's in a really small way or in a really big way, is just something I deeply cherish and, yeah, and to kind of be dropped into the pool of this particular community with this show in the moment that it happened, in the way that it happened with the people, it's kind of like you were. You were talking about that moment when you just happened to be sitting right in the path of Jacob, and you got to say hello and talk to him, which I'm sure meant a lot to him and I'm sure he loved.
Oh, I love him so much, you know? And I think, yeah, I think, yeah, I'm fumbling over my words because there are no words to adequately express how profound on so many levels. But I think, like, ultimately, ultimately, it comes back to just, like, monumental gratitude for, you know, this quality of community and sense of belonging that we've kind of come back to over and over again in this conversation, not just within the context of the show, but within the context of the community of those of us who were a part of the process and who were part of the organism backstage eight times a week. And, yeah, you know, I think. I think just like our fans and audience members needed what we were sharing those of us who were on the inside. We needed to find each other. I feel that way.
And so, um.
Yeah, it's. It's. It's so wild and so many things, and, uh, it's. It's. It's. There's so many layers. It feels. It feels moving to reflect on it, but also impossible, because I like, like we joked about. I could talk to you for five more hours and probably not even touch on. What was it like? You know?
[00:58:41] Speaker A: No, no. Nicole and I could have done the same. It's like, how do you find that cut off point to where you, like, come back for two more episodes? Because we can literally fill the time very easily. It was important to not only be able to talk to some of the actors, but also to go backstage in the creative pod set and learn how a show like that got made in all the interwoven parts and the inner connectivity that. I mean, judge, like, I kept using this example. Like, if you do a movie, you're shooting for a few months, it's edited post production, it gets released, it's up there. And then you move on. Or you move on once you stop shooting.
But with Broadway musical, you can't do that. You're literally doing eight shows a week. I mean, I keep mentioning the prom, and there's a lot more dancing in that, but it's like, it's a workout.
[01:00:32] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[01:00:33] Speaker A: To do intro eight days a week and to have that stamina and to throw little new things in the show that maybe the audience doesn't catch, but just to keep it invigorating for the actors and to have the personal connections off stage, but then to go on stage and shut those down because these characters are completely new at the start of every single production. And so you're doing the same thing, but differently every single time. And then how to engage your creativity, not get bored. I mean, this is a job, but it's also incredibly important, all of that. The more and more I think about all this pod sets, and I'm an actor, too, although I do it on a hobby, bait sets. It's not my day job at all.
But it's also the deeper and deeper I get into these interviews, the more and more I want to know and show the complexities of judge doing a Broadway show for however long you do it. And then you think of shows that go on and on and on. And the Magdalen obit is the phantom of the Opera, where it ran for over 30 years. Several tads, changes of chords. But the staying power of musical thedominal judged to be on the ground floor where all the magic happens. And so, in case there are any aspiring actors, stage hand directors, writers, wanting to get more involved in self advocacy through musical theater, through art creation, whatever the case may be, as someone who wears very many hats, what are some action points or action steps you can provide them?
[01:03:59] Speaker B: That's a really great question. Also, to be honest, a tough one to answer because the absolutely maddening thing that is said over and over again that I heard a lot when I was younger and first starting out in this community is there's no one path, there's no roadmap, there's no one way to get where you're going.
And every journey is different. And I think that kind of leads me into the answer I typically like to offer when people ask for advice on how to navigate the industry or this community or to show up in a way that feels authentic for themselves, particularly when it comes to self advocacy or community advocacy or identity based work.
And this is, again, going to sound so much easier said than done and might be frustrating to hear because, you know, I hear what you're asking for as actionable things.
But for me, I've found that, you know, the answers to these questions are unfortunately a little less actionable than people might want, you know, to have something to respond to and to say, oh, I'll do that, and then I'll do that.
But, you know, in the vein of everybody's path is their own.
I have found for me, my journey personally, I can only speak for myself that my key to, quote unquote, you know, this idea of success is honoring what I need to be well, in every moment.
[01:05:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:05:50] Speaker B: And leaning into my intuition and my impulses and listening to my gut and making sure that taking care of myself is at the forefront of everything that I'm doing. And that is not easy. I'm not saying, like, oh, here's this woo answer. That's going to be easy. You know, I think a lot of times people get caught up in, oh, what class do I need to take or what specific style of training do I need to do? And all of those things are wonderful. But me, I'm more interested in, like, encouraging people to live their life in a way that feels authentic to them and, like, hang out with yourself. Yeah, boy, your own company. Figure out who you are and what matters to you so that when you are in those moments where you can show up in an artistic way that gives you an opportunity to express or reflect your self advocacy, then you know what that is because you know so wholly and deeply who you are.
And again, all of this is easier said than done, and probably a really frustrating answer for anybody listening who wants to know. Step step one, step two, step three.
But in reality, sometimes working on your craft is going through a heartbreak, you know? And sometimes working on your craft is getting really nourishing groceries and making yourself a delightful meal, you know? And I think there are just, like, other ways of defining that and thinking about that that are maybe just unconventional. And that's what I can offer because I'm a little bit more unconventional when it comes to how I've navigated things and approached things.
And it's not to say that don't work hard and don't do the grind.
It's just to say that I just deeply encourage people to find a way to be so in tune with themselves that in every moment they can get really clear on what is a yes for me, what is a no for me. And, you know, this idea of having to say yes to everything, maybe that's great for some people, that's not been great for me.
And I think just trusting in your journey and knowing that there unfortunately is no, like one laid out path to anything.
But I have found that, you know, the right things and the right moments for me have so far unfolded in ways that have been beyond what I could ever imagine or hope for. And, you know, that's also like a nonlinear journey. You know, this is all cyclical and something I'm constantly back to in moments of transition all the time. And yeah, I think the most important thing to me is just to encourage people to take care of themselves in whatever way is most accessible to them.
I know that there can be so many barriers to that and just honoring yourself and doing what's true for you. And yeah, I think, gosh, here's another thing I could write a book about or talk to you for five more hours about, but it's. Yeah, I think. I think eliminating the word should from your vocabulary could be an interesting thing to explore and maybe replacing it with could.
And, yeah, I think, yeah, I think maybe a more logistical answer. One other layer, because this is a multi layered question, could be its own podcast, honestly. But, you know, it's along the lines of living your life in a way that feels authentic to you, but I think it's important to find a foundation of your life and community that feels nourishing for you without the thing that you're striving for.
And I think that has something that has been really crucial for me and integral to each of these moments when, like a quote unquote big thing has happened in my life. And I think in each of those moments, like when I booked the band's visit when I joined the creative team of how to dance in Ohio, you know, those two like, kind of like big things on my journey.
Both of those happened in times when I had been working really hard to find wholeness within myself and my life and my community and my environments in a way that these massively profound and magical, honestly, experiences that bloomed for me were like cherries on top of the cake, because I made sure that my everyday breath and, you know, how I was living my life every day and waking up and existing in my body and the world was the cake first.
And, you know. Yeah. So I don't know. That's probably. That's probably going to be such an annoying answer for all the people you're representing and asking them question.
But yeah, I think just also for me, like, leaning in, I think it all comes down. All of this is boiling down to authenticity. So, you know, leaning into people you feel an authentic connection and alignment with.
You know, when you, when you meet someone you feel like you really jive with, see if you can get to know them more or.
Yeah, I think also just curiosity is really key.
[01:12:26] Speaker A: Yeah, it is one of the only reasons why do this podcast and somehow turn off or mute my social anxiety because the curiosity wins out of. I mean, I've always had that kid's nature about me. I hope that it's only the first interview of several that we do together.
I really do mean that the last question is, we've talked about a lot of topics during this episode, and I hope that both people with disabilities and those who have yet to discover and embrace their own disabilities.
Let's see and watch this show.
But I'm not naive enough to think that both groups, or groups within those groups take away the same things. So, as my guests, what do you hope that advocates with disabilities take away from this episode? What do you hope that those two have yet to discover in ways their own disabilities take away from the Zeppelin zone?
[01:14:17] Speaker B: That's a great question, and I imagine and hope that there's crossover between both of those categories you named.
I think I could break things down to both avenues, but I think ultimately, in that crossover and that the intersection that I think exists there is, I hope people who are listening to this, hear this conversation and feel reminded that there's room for them.
And I'm actually going to say that again in a direct way, that is, to whoever might be listening to this. There is room for you, I think. I hope people.
I think if there's anything I hope people take away, it's that, yeah, there's room for you. You matter. You have value.
Your voice is the only one that is yours. And you are allowed to show up. Period. You're allowed to show up for your deepest dreams and desires, and in the right moments and in the right communities, you will find your place. And I say that as someone who has had to work really hard, multiple times, to reaffirm a deep belief in myself and remember that I matter and I'm worthy and. And that it's okay to be heard and to be seen and to show up.
And I think also, I think.
I hope people take away this knowing that it's okay to not know. It's okay to not know who you are and not know what you need, but to know that you're allowed to take whatever time it takes to figure that out and that there will be people in community on the other side ready to embrace you again. I'm only speaking from my experience, but that. That is what has been true for me. And, yeah, I think. Yeah, I think if. If there's anything I hope people take away is just to do what's right for them. Operate on their own timeline, honestly, do what makes you happy, you know, do what brings you joy, what nourishes your soul. And those are the things that are going to lead you toward the next thing that is generative or in alignment with the energy or the feeling of what fills you up, you know?
[01:17:15] Speaker A: So how can someone contact you or learn more about the various creative avenues that you operate in?
[01:17:32] Speaker B: That's a great question. I'm currently in the process of rebuilding my website, which will eventually be the best way people can get in touch and also follow the different avenues of all the different hats that I wear.
But for right now, if someone is listening to this and feels a pole to reach out and connect in some capacity, I think an Instagram message is a good place to start.
Or if they reach out to you and you let me know, then I would potentially be able to connect with someone via email. But I think in this moment, an Instagram message is a good place to start. And my handle is my name with an underscore. So it's.
I think that's a good place to start. And if you message me and I don't see it right away, please don't take it personally in this current moment, I go online to check my messages once a week, so that's what I'm working with right now. And that's actually a great example. It's a great example of my answer to your advice question that you were asking. That's something I'm practicing right now, something I need to do to protect my well being right now.
Stay off of social media as much as I can. So right now I'm not opening Instagram, but once a week I'm going on to check my messages and making sure I'm not missing outreach that has to do with something professional or someone who may need to connect with me in a supportive capacity.
So that is an example of how I'm practicing deep trust that you know I won't miss what I meant to receive.
[01:19:28] Speaker A: Ariel, thank you so much for coming on the show. I hope you know you always have a praise here and we should totally do a five hour interview. I'm so appreciative and grateful to know you and I to know of your auditory and your role in helping bring a groundbreaking musical to the forefront. And I really, really hope it blots them into whatever form it takes next. And I look forward to seeing you again down the creative road.
[01:20:29] Speaker B: Oh, thank you so much Keith. Thank you for having me. I'm glad we were connected and thank you for loving our show and also keeping it alive with your curiosity.
[01:20:48] Speaker A: You have been listening to disability empowerment. Now I would like to thank my dads, you, Oligener, and the digital empowerment team that made this episode possible.
More information about the podcast can be found at Disability empowermentnow.com or on our social media ad Disability Empowerment now the podcast is available wherever you listen to. Podcats are on the official website. Don't forget to rate, comment and share the podcast. This episode of Disability Empowerment knowledge copyrighted 2024.
