Episode Transcript
[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome to ditsability empowerment now. I'm Neil host Keith Murphy. Diggin singing today I'm talking to actor Madison Koepak, who played Meredith in the musical how to dance in Ohio.
Madison, welcome to the show.
[00:00:38] Speaker B: Hey, it's so great to be here. Thank you for having me.
[00:00:42] Speaker A: I've really been looking forward to talking to you the entire week because this show stole my heart in every possible way. I saw it six times, really, which I could have seen in, like, 16 more. And that judge fudge started.
Tell me how you, Fudge, became aware of the project.
[00:01:23] Speaker B: I became aware of the project, I think, through an email chain from somebody when Stuart Whitley was still Stuart Whitley. I had done a previous project with them, Indigo, and they knew I was an autistic actor. And they're like, hey, they're looking for autistic actors to do this show. And I was like, sure. And just really fell in love with the concept. And the writers like, oh, my gosh, I love Rebecca and Jacob so much.
Just all of the positivity behind the development of the show was what got me into it.
[00:02:11] Speaker A: What would the audition pod sets like and then finding out you had got the role and then meeting your fellow cats mates for the first time, it was actually.
[00:02:30] Speaker B: So I was sending my auditions, and, like, I didn't know any sort of proper setup for an audition, so I was, like, in my basement recording my first one.
I did a one and done take. I was working at McDonald's at that point and was doing another show, and I was like, oh, there's so much going on. But I'm so glad that my family encouraged me to do it. And I sent it in. And then, yeah, I got a call back when I was at school, and that was. I never had any in person auditions for this show, so, yeah, but then I ended up going out to New York in October 2021 for the first little read through we all did together. And I met everyone a day late because I got sick, kind of. I don't know. I've got chronic illness.
But, yeah, sorry. I'm, like, trying to figure out the.
[00:03:38] Speaker A: Best way, like, to don't worry, take your time.
[00:03:44] Speaker B: Meeting everybody, though, was really cool.
I could tell that I'm like, oh, these people are like, these people are cool, and I want to be friends with them.
And we ended up getting really close, like, not right away, but, you know, then June of 22 and Syracuse, we were together a lot. And, yeah, we just kind of became, like, family, and it was really neat.
[00:04:20] Speaker A: How was it adopting a musical or play in general, that mattered. So it's a material about very real, live people. Like, I've run into the real doctor amigo.
[00:04:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:43] Speaker A: Several times at this show.
[00:04:48] Speaker B: He was around a lot.
[00:04:49] Speaker A: Yeah. And, I mean, to be honest, I refrained from seeing the documentary until after the show closed. And then I was like, yeah, they'd stole that. They'd stole that. They'd stole that. Oh, wait, where's the music?
[00:05:17] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:05:17] Speaker A: Like, I can only think of one major plot point that they, meaning Jacob and Rebecca, added to enhance the original concept of the show. But when.
When I heard someone say at the vinyl performance, oh, the real doctor amigo is here. My eyes judge wide because I judge did not.
I had the guardian that was based on a documentary and LP Bolton. So before I go on another geek out tangent, how, what did, uh, adapting this material and meeting some of the real life counterparts and how did that inform your portrayal of the character itself herself?
[00:06:42] Speaker B: Yeah, no, so, um, I totally agree with that. I think that the musical how to dance in Ohio has just become its own separate entity. That is, like, you know, like, a lot of things that you'll see a movie and it's, like, based on a true story, but, like, while there's elements of truth there, like, you know, it becomes its own thing, like, after so long. And I think that there is a little bit of freedom in that. But also, at the same time, I never. My, and I am always trying to be very clear about this. I never, ever want to mimic a real person, especially.
Well, I mean, impressions are one thing, but mimicking another disabled person is not something that I am comfortable doing. No, I am comfortable. Yeah. Being myself, but, yeah. So I. I wanted to make that clear to the real Meredith as well, who is wonderful. I love her so much. She's so cool.
I met her before I moved out to New York for this, actually. I got to meet up with her in Columbus. And, you know, she's just.
She's just got this charm to her. She's so charming and so smart. She's so intelligent and will tell you anything you need to know. Like, she.
You have a question, a hypothetical? She's got it figured out in seconds. Just give her the phone. Like, she.
But, yeah, I really just wanted to make sure that I was never a caricature of somebody. And if anything, I wanted to do somebody justice.
Like, when she came out to see the show on opening night, all seven of the original people.
[00:08:39] Speaker A: How was that? I mean, judge, knowing that the original seven were there not even in the front row, but anywhere in the Vita and looking up at actors like, I'm marvelous that the real doctor Amigo comes to this show.
[00:09:12] Speaker B: He wanted to play Doctor Amigo.
[00:09:15] Speaker A: I don't even want to assume. I tried to guess how many times he's seen that show, but I know a lot. Yeah, it seems like it's taking home for him almost.
But take me back to opening night. And you, you and your cat mates, very aware that Vinzi, not only the first performance, the first musical of its kind in subject matter.
[00:09:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:00] Speaker A: But also be very well aware that the roles you were playing, the real life counterparts, were in the Vita, about to watch you betray their younger selves.
[00:10:22] Speaker B: Yeah, it was. It was a wild time. I mean, a couple people had come out to Syracuse to see it as well. Jessica and Caroline came out, but, yeah, it was so surreal. I think probably more for them than for us. I mean, it's always going to feel weird being like, I play you in a musical, but technically, it's really not that even. It's kind of like I play a character that was, like, based on you.
[00:10:58] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:58] Speaker B: Like, it's not.
So I think, again, there's so much more freedom in that. But just, like, I don't know, knowing that all of them were there and they all seemed to be having, like, a good time, like, on stage, like.
Cause we brought everybody up for bows. Like, all of the real life people in the musical that were there, everybody had their real life counterpart, I think.
[00:11:26] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:11:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:29] Speaker A: So talk more about what it was like preparing for this war, how much of the documentary served ads, personal background, and how much was. I mean, you mentioned earlier on that, and it's very important to repeat. It's by no means a mimic of any of the real life counterparts. 100% character. It's characters based upon real people who judge having to share the same name.
[00:12:25] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:12:28] Speaker A: Yet. So talk more about preparing for the role and winning your own acting ability of.
I don't want to say self, but.
[00:12:49] Speaker B: Yeah, no, some of it kind of is.
I think I could indeed.
[00:12:55] Speaker A: Witches wedge, by the way.
[00:12:58] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that makes sense.
Again, I'm lucky enough to have played another autistic character, although Meredith is vastly different from the other character that I play, but which is kind of beautiful, but I tend to just take my own movements and stims and things that I know I do and kind of project them onto this character. So it's never like it's something I know that I'm doing. And I think that that's where it's important to have, you know, disabled people playing disabled roles, whether it's autism, whether it's anything. I think that the person with that disability is going to have the most experience and have the most convincing performance because they know what it's like.
[00:13:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:57] Speaker B: And it.
I don't know. I think that for everyone involved in the show, that's. And I don't want to speak for everyone, but I think a lot of people did very similar things, just, you know, kind of picked up on their own sims that they do or things that friends do and, you know, develop these, like, characters. Not just that character, not to reduce them down to stims, but, you know, just in one aspect of how I would prepare for this role. And I also just. I'm a very similar person to Meredith, the character, where, like, I tend to be like, no, I don't want to. No, no. But then if I go, I'm like, I end up having a good time. And I know this about myself. So I kind of like to think about younger version of me around, like, you know, 18, where, like, meredith, the character would be and what I would do, which would probably be like, I don't want to. But, yeah, that's part of how.
[00:15:12] Speaker A: So I keep in my head and talking to Liam after the Broadway reunion concert, which was fantastic.
[00:15:29] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:15:30] Speaker A: And also the composers. And I met Rebecca. I've interviewed Jacob. I got too fond over the script with Rebecca, and I actually compared it to Hamlet. And I do nothing. Not apologized for that at all.
Yeah.
[00:15:58] Speaker B: I mean, I can. Yeah.
[00:16:02] Speaker A: Yeah. It's basically Hamlet without the violence on this.
[00:16:08] Speaker B: Right, exactly. Yeah.
[00:16:10] Speaker A: With music.
[00:16:13] Speaker B: That is true.
You know, that's also the thing I think about a lot of old theater like that. Not to get too off topic, but.
And how many of these characters are very, like, as they say, neurodiverse coded or, like, disabled coded.
And it's because there was not language at that time to describe it. So, of course, these characters are still going to be there because disability has always existed.
[00:16:44] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I. I remember telling Liam, your code star or one of them. Fantastic. We'll get into that dynamic in a little bit. I kept comparing this musical to another very recent musical, the poem.
[00:17:13] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah.
[00:17:15] Speaker A: Because the characters in that, the dance with me aspect and the coming out aspect runs throughout that entire play. The musical styles also, in my mind, very spot on, similar.
But the ending of the poem in which they dance together and kids are. Is almost exactly note for note.
[00:18:01] Speaker B: That was what somebody said, somebody called it is this the prom for straight people.
And I was like, no, please don't do that.
[00:18:12] Speaker A: Uh oh.
Wow.
Well, damn.
[00:18:18] Speaker B: But I totally know what you mean, because you're very right about that.
[00:18:22] Speaker A: No, no. Well, thank you.
Please compliment me more, judge. Kidding.
So, in terms of the point I was trying to make, the ending 1234 is the ridge. It's literally the large lines of the musical. It's the same ads. The final action of the prom. The only thing that is mentioned that really differentiates the two ending actions, it's the characters in the prom.
Kit, you and Liam don't.
And we could talk about that all day, but we're not. It's judge and the 1234. Really, the hand grad spin or hand holding is leads, in my mind, very apt and very true to the characters you all portraying.
[00:19:57] Speaker B: I do agree with that.
[00:19:58] Speaker A: Yeah. And, like, I can't separate those two now because the actions. And it's very slow build up with both of those musicals, and you get the payoff at the end, which is good musical theater.
Let's talk about the. What is it again? Oh, heritage.
Heritage. Normative romance.
It's.
I was trying to call to mind the lines of the play. I don't believe I did it, judge, since it's all right. But it's very much a symbol. Cat.
Everyone gets their own song, and you all join in each other songs.
But Vince, America, Hollywood, Broadway, we all like odd sinter centering romance.
[00:21:32] Speaker B: Right?
[00:21:34] Speaker A: What would you like evolving that?
And I don't want to say it's the vocal point of the musical, because that would be unfair to everything else that's happening in the musical. But what would you like forming that bond and that connection with another actor? Because, like, movie, you shoot it over a few months, then it's up there for all time.
You and your cat maids are literally stepping into these roles and performing them.
Each performances a week for however many weeks, and every performance had to be the third time over and over and over for these.
So what. What would that Hod says? Like, slow building the romantic payoff at the end.
[00:23:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Um, luckily, Liam is also. He's a very talented and witty actor, and we were, like. There weren't a lot of, like, Meredith drew moments in the script, so we would.
[00:23:24] Speaker A: No, they really, really want. That's also what makes it so effort to see that pale.
[00:23:38] Speaker B: Right. So. Cause. So we would just kind of, like, add little, like, side bits here and there. Like, we would, like, look, one of us would be looking at the other, and then the other would look and then we look away, look back, see if they're still looking, and, like, just kind of little things like that. And I don't know, like, we. We became close pretty fast in 2022, like, in June and in Syracuse, because we're staying together.
But, yeah, it was, you know, changing with the script for two years. I feel like the chemistry itself has always just had this baseline of, like, this is what it looks like and, like.
And not in a bad way, but it's also, like, evolved.
So, like, I don't know.
We also have this stupid thing where, I don't know if you know, oh, hello. John Mulaney. Nick Kroll. And we'll talk through each other like this, and we can't stop talking like it. And then. And then everybody around us starts talking like that. So it's. It's easy to play opposite of somebody again. Like, you're working with them for almost two years. Like, you're bound to hopefully become friends. Like, I also, again, good situation that ended up being good friends with my cast.
[00:25:10] Speaker A: Yeah. And you don't always get that, but before we go into that, like, the third time I had seen the musical, I had no idea what was going to happen until the opening number of the second act. Uh, before then, it's ig ago either way. You have no idea until you hear that second act of been again, very brilliantly, immutably done. Uh, still chokes me up just thinking about it. How was it headlining that number, going into the second act and really revealing that. Oh, yeah, Meredith likes drew a lot.
[00:26:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:21] Speaker A: Because if you don't see them, doctor.
[00:26:26] Speaker B: Right. It's kind of central to the plot that she does.
Yeah. It actually wasn't added in until Syracuse drift wasn't.
And Jacob was like, I think it was actually one of the. Maybe it was the first, but I know it was one of the first motifs that he wrote for the Meredith character, the opening, like, that one.
So he and Matt gallagher play it for me, and I'm just sitting there like, oh, my God, that's exactly what it feels like to be in love with something or, like, have a little crush on someone. Like, that's. Yeah.
And it was. It's.
I'm really glad they added that in. I think that.
I'm glad that autistic girlies maybe also can have, like, a little love song that is just for them.
I don't know.
It's for anybody, honestly, it doesn't matter. But, yeah, I'm. Yeah, I was. I was so glad they added that in there. Like, this was a huge missing piece in the puzzle. Like, not. Not. No pun intended there, because we don't do that. But not puns. I mean, autism speaks. Sorry. Not to get political, but anyway. Yeah, drift.
Sorry. I don't know what that ramble was.
[00:28:09] Speaker A: No, that. Completely fun.
The closeness of the cats is extremely, extremely evident.
If I were there on day one, I would be very comfortable. Insane from day one. You guys will always like this, but you. You get that feeling both on and off stage, and you don't always get that in a production, either musical, play, or movie. Talk more about the.
What that brought to the overall experience and how, if at all, it shaped how you went in or did the latter half of the production. Because from audience viewpoint, when you get to the end of the show, it's kind of obvious that not only are the characters pretty much family, it feels like you all could really be related. Or Jacob and Rebecca Judge picked everyone from the same high school class, even though they did not do that.
[00:30:15] Speaker B: No, it's. I think. And like you're saying with the end, a lot of that is because sometimes we were especially.
There were sometimes just by the end of the show, some people were just over it, and we'd be, like, half in character, but then just, like, having fun. Like. But it's a part of, like, you. You know, it's like, it's the matter of, like, knowing when to do stuff like that, because that's not something you do all the time or whatever. But, you know, I think just having that closeness as a cast made the experience, like, so much better. It. You know, it felt like I'm like, oh, my God, I get to make my Broadway debut alongside my friends. Like, that's so cool. Like, it's not like I've. Honestly, I don't think I've thought of them, any of them, as co workers.
I don't. I like, like, they are my friends. I was never like, this is my coworker or my work friends. These are my friends.
And, yeah, we've. Yeah, it's. It's been really nice to be with a group of, like, such friendly people.
[00:31:36] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, and that didn't have to be manufactured at all. In fact, if you tried to manufacture that, it would have been see through or come off wrong.
[00:32:02] Speaker B: Right.
[00:32:04] Speaker A: If it was up to me, you guys would just be finished shooting the movie.
[00:32:13] Speaker B: No.
[00:32:14] Speaker A: Jacob and Rebecca would just be putting on the final touches of the second one and pre. Pre brainstorming the third one. Be careful to keep you all gainfully employed from your mouth to God's ears in my head.
Well, I wish I could really make that a reality for you all. So let's talk about the significance, because it is the birds of its kind.
Why do you am. I don't know if you know that Broadway has been around for quite a while now.
[00:33:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:33:18] Speaker A: Why do you think now and not now? But when you began production, why do you think then was the time that Broadway really received a long overdue wake up call in terms of authentic representation in every single way?
[00:33:55] Speaker B: Right.
You know, I think just in general, like, there's always just been. And even still now, there's like, these weird.
I mean, people are conditioned to think in ableist ways. Yada, yada, whatever, boohoo.
But these people will have these beliefs about disabled people and that, oh, well, since they are disabled, clearly that means they don't have the intellectual capacity to do this acting job. Even, like, again, autism, which is a development, a neurodevelopmental disability, not an intellectual disability, though you can have ids, like, on top of autism or anything, like whatever, but these people will make assumptions wrongly about that. And that's why you see things like, God, I don't even want to say the examples because I'm like, uh oh. Um. Like, you just see neurotypical actors, like, playing disabled characters or able bodied characters playing physically, like you. We've been seeing it happen, like, over and over again, and it's just now, I think, finally, I think it proves a point almost, because it's like, you thought we couldn't do this, and then we did it. So now you don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to your ableism.
[00:35:25] Speaker A: Well, they never really did. But I was talking to the assistant musical director and Nicole, who I've known for years, but judge met in person the night of the Broadway reunion.
We literally bumped into each other, and there are so many absurd and bagshit crazy wrong assumptions about people with autism that still could sense to this very day. That's very second. It's very nanosecond.
[00:36:30] Speaker B: No, exactly.
[00:36:31] Speaker A: What?
Because I'll keep bringing up Liam. I had this very in depth, long conversation with him after the show, and he doesn't know me from Adam.
It's judge. But when he was talking to me and we were surrounded by 300 people, he would show laser focus on me, which was amazing, but it called in the back of my head the assumption that people with autism are antisocial, unfriendly, think they're better than everyone else. Unfunny, which is very untrue.
[00:37:47] Speaker B: Right, right. I'm like, okay, so you haven't had a conversation with me. Like, that's fine, but that's. Yeah, I totally agree with that. And I think I like to describe sometimes is I feel like my acting job starts more when I'm off the clock. Like when I'm at the stage door, when I, like, see people, I feel like, especially again, playing autistic characters. I feel like maybe that could change if I'm playing a neurotypical character on top of it.
[00:38:23] Speaker A: But, I mean, sorry to interrupt. I didn't mean to bring up anything bad about those assumptions.
[00:38:39] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:38:40] Speaker A: It just really bothered me that they put sense to the level that they do. Like, I have cerebral palsy. If you somehow isolate my. And I'm not sure you will believe that social anxiety, given my job, you can probably make that trait. But then you would label everyone ads artistic in their. The danger. Uh, but I agree.
Notion that our ted stick people are savants or unfriendly.
Unfunny. Again there.
If they weren't so downright offensive, and this is coming from me, non autistic person, they were hilarious because they're so off base. It's like, talk about, if you will, what it is like having to combat those in like minded assumptions overtly and on a micro level every single day.
[00:40:25] Speaker B: Oh, man. It says it's a double edged sword, being an autistic person who's, like, presents as, like, feminine. So it becomes a double edged sword of people will speak to me as if I'm a child and undermine my experiences or. And or. Because sometimes they'll do both somehow convince, like, if I'm having a problem, like, let's say somebody is doing, like, is. Is not leaving me alone. And I'm like, hey, this person's not leaving me alone. And then they weaponize this person's autism against me when I should have known better. And this is not just something that. This is not like, on a recent event. Like, this has happened on multiple occasions to me. And I know that it's happened a lot to other people. Like, and I just. Because there's. And then in doing that, you also, like, infantilize the autistic person who's, like, doing the action. Like, sorry, again to divert the topic, but, like, I think sometimes people, and it is an ableist assumption, think that because somebody's autistic, that they couldn't possibly do anything wrong.
But then also when the people they're affecting are autistic no, you're an.
[00:41:49] Speaker A: People assume you're an angel, but also a devil.
I mean, it's like.
[00:42:01] Speaker B: It just depends on who you run into. And that is just the double edged sword of trying to navigate that and also to teach myself and unlearn things that I've, like, been made to believe about what people say. And it's like, well, that's just not true. Like, from either side, whether it's the infantilizing side or the devaluing side.
[00:42:26] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:42:28] Speaker B: Or, oh, sorry, I just thought about this. They'll also, they love to pull the. But you don't remind me of so and so that I know who is an autistic child. And, yeah, I know you've heard that one before, too, because. And it's insane to me that. That people will still.
Yeah, I just think. I think having an open mind is like, as long as somebody comes to me with an open mind, if you say something that's a little like, oh, I'll try to politely correct on terminology and be like, hey, so actually this is what, like, the terminology is because it's important to me. But, yeah, it's. It's a mess, but you get through it.
Life throws you hurdles, but you just gotta.
[00:43:21] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I mean, God forbid you have a pod that, that, like, what are people like being in relationships?
[00:43:39] Speaker B: We.
[00:43:40] Speaker A: No idea.
[00:43:41] Speaker B: No, exactly.
[00:43:43] Speaker A: Whatsoever.
[00:43:44] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. No.
[00:43:52] Speaker A: Minimize or trivialize that.
[00:43:55] Speaker B: Right.
But I think it's a wrongful assumption to think that any disabled person can't have intimacy or romance or relationships.
[00:44:04] Speaker A: It should.
Packing it in to all the other again and not making light.
If they weren't so offensive, all of the assumptions would probably be hilarious, would probably make a right.
[00:44:33] Speaker B: If people didn't believe these things, if people didn't genuinely believe it, like, yeah, you would think somebody's joking when they say some of the things. And I'm like, oh, that was serious. Oh, right.
[00:44:45] Speaker A: To hold hands with your part. No, I thought that all autistic people didn't like to be touched.
[00:44:57] Speaker B: Well, and that's the thing. And it also comes down to the thing of consent. And anybody, disabled or not, can learn consent. And if you do not have the capacity to learn consent, then you shouldn't be allowed to date. But most people have the capacity to know, is this okay, yes or no?
And go based off of that. And it's, you know, I feel like also a lot of, not all, but there are some autism, like, I recognize at the stage door a lot for how to dance in Ohio, people would ask.
A lot of them were neurodiverse themselves. Would ask if they could take a picture. And whereas other people may grab or, like, just kind of shove a camera in your face.
[00:45:48] Speaker A: Like, there's a Liam.
I asked Liam if I could touch him before I touched him for the picture. It's a judge.
[00:46:05] Speaker B: It's basic consent.
[00:46:07] Speaker A: Yeah. It's consent. It's currency. But again, respect. Most important thing, it's. It's consent.
[00:46:20] Speaker B: Exactly.
Yeah.
And, yeah, there's just so many misconceptions, but I think there's, like, new things in the works that should be able to break those down. You know, I'm hoping for that.
[00:46:39] Speaker A: And so we could talk for hours and hours and hours about everything that represents that significance, et cetera, et cetera.
What are some of the most men for highlights of personal stories that you've taken away from this production?
[00:47:21] Speaker B: Wow. A lot. I.
I just really loved being at that theater.
I tell this story all the time, but the first Broadway show I ever saw was Hedwig. And they agree inch in 2015 at the Belasco, and then I ended up.
[00:47:39] Speaker A: No. You would like a homecoming for you?
[00:47:43] Speaker B: Yeah, kind of. I mean, like, it was for a long time, like, one of the only Broadway theaters that I knew what the interior looked like. Cause I was. I'm from Indiana. I wasn't going to Broadway shows all the time, but, yeah, it was just such a lovely experience to be there and be there with my friends. Like, just hanging out at the theater after a show, like, it's so much fun. And there are a lot of staged or experiences I had as well that were very meaningful.
There are just a lot of people that related to the characters and, you know, tell me personal stories. And a lot of people, like, gave gifts and art. Like, there's really talented artists who've been making stuff for, like, fan art, for how to dance in Ohio.
Yeah. Just to see all the creativity and, like, stuff and the joy that came out of the community, like, cultivating around this show was just really cool to see as well, because you don't always get that with, like, a group of fans.
[00:48:57] Speaker A: No, no, absolutely not. You don't. And it's judge the amount of love and people who would see this show over and over. Like, I follow Jacobs Instagram. Thank you. Following me back, by the way.
Of course, when he.
When he posted a couple's reaction to, oh, did.
Upwards of 20th time seeing this show, I was like, uh, that, uh, I'm obsessed with musical theater, but I. Right.
What do you think? It is about this show that spoke so concretely and directly to people.
[00:50:23] Speaker B: You know, I think it's a lot about the subject matter and the characters, specifically the main seven. I think a lot of people senseless, like, and again, it's, like, not the whole spectrum. Obviously, we can't represent everybody, but I think a lot of people related to different characters. And since there were options and there wasn't just the token neurodiverse one, the token disabled one, like, there's.
There's seven. And so you have a wider array of characters that you can relate with and experiences that you might relate with and just. Yeah, I don't know. I think, and I think also just the idea, like, it was such a win for theater people in the autistic community that we finally got to be autistic characters instead of a neurotypical doing it. So, like, we're making progress slowly but surely.
[00:51:21] Speaker A: Yeah. There was a sequel, and again, from my legs to God's ears, uh.
[00:51:33] Speaker B: What.
[00:51:33] Speaker A: Would be some areas in which you want to see explored in a hypothetical sequel?
[00:51:48] Speaker B: Um, I would probably. I would. I want to see more about the drew and Meredith timeline. I want to see what happens with that. Like, regardless of whether it's just kind of awkward and then nothing happens, or if they, like, it's like a passionate romance. Like, it's. It's anyone's game. Like, it's.
But I think.
I think I'd also love to see, like, that, like, everybody being, like, their own, like, life episode. Like, if. If honestly, like, probably more like a tv show, like, where you can, like, follow a character's, like, story for, like, an episode and then, like, switch to, like, and they come together, like, whatever. I don't know.
But, yeah, probably something with the druid of pipeline.
[00:52:44] Speaker A: So one thing that I will want to see, besides somehow being in the sequel, you dream big or you go home.
Exactly.
Homie jingle.
No, it, like, there was a very tinder moment in the third half of the third act where we're introduced to Mel and Ashley's previous friendship before the events of the play, and we don't.
[00:53:38] Speaker B: I would love to see that.
[00:53:39] Speaker A: If that's a friendship, if that's a sister ship, if that's a romance.
[00:53:48] Speaker B: Again, anyone's game, you get a sort.
[00:53:53] Speaker A: Of payoff at the end, near the end of act two with reincarnation, but that. And then here's another thing.
What if actually.
Omega.
Omega.
[00:54:14] Speaker B: Yeah. You're good.
[00:54:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, what if actually is autistic that.
[00:54:25] Speaker B: You know, we also. We had an autistic swing cover for Ashley. And I was just like thinking about that and I was like, that fully changes the narrative of the story. But like, I kind of. I really love the implications that. That.
That could carry. Like I. I think that that would be cool to explore. But again, like, since it's based on real people and I mean, not that the real Ashley would care, but yeah, you know, it's.
Yeah, I think that would have been. That would be cool to explore.
[00:54:56] Speaker A: I mean, a sequel is really hard because of the sorts material, right. And doing it and the real life people behind it judged it creatively, creativity and otherwise.
But it really is really fascinating to see how well this show did in a very heartwarming way that didn't play up the inspirational angle.
[00:55:55] Speaker B: Right.
[00:55:56] Speaker A: Yeah, I using the term heart felt because I saw that in a review.
But also it is hard felt. I mean, I don't see musicals beyond two or three times. There are judge too. I mean, it's Broadway. Come on. There's just too many to see. But there's something about the music. Wanting to see those characters again and again and again. And I'll tell you something.
After the first time I saw it, I saw my former partner in it, I saw my cousin in it, I saw so many family in it. I don't always need to see myself of my disability.
That's not the point at all. When one of us wins, it's a win for everyone.
[00:57:21] Speaker B: I mean, I agree with that fully.
[00:57:24] Speaker A: You could say that. I mean, if you have one or two person you've met, one artistic person, the reason you could make a very similar, uh, saying to cerebral palsy. How I get around that in my own advocacy, is that I consider cerebral palsy to be a universe within itself because it's so diverged in terms of the character instincts.
[00:58:10] Speaker B: Right.
[00:58:11] Speaker A: Different times.
When I first saw the play, the musical, the soundtrack wasn't out yet, and I had a moment of panic.
Well, what if they don't release the sound, Jack?
[00:58:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:58:35] Speaker A: I kept going to see it because I couldn't get the songs out of my head. Thank you, Jacob. And we're begging for that wrapping up. And I meant I almost called you the gagged name Madigan. I want to thank you for coming on. We're not done yet, but thank you. And I do hope you will come back.
So you always have a place here. I hope you know that. Add all of your cat maids, your friends ads you so right.
If there wasn't a cats party at the end of the Broadway reunion show, I would have sludge and took you all out. It would not. Uh, and I'm not just saying that to be nice. It's just that camaraderie. You kind of get addicted to that authenticity and being around it because you don't.
It's unfortunately very rare in this world. Two more questions before I let you go. Sort of wrapping up, uh, leads, part one of the discussion, uh, like the sequel that needs to be written right to God.
Uh, if there are any inspiring actors, dancers, singers, a lot of your fellow cats members are singers and songwriters, which didn't surprise me at all.
All of you are triple threats.
[01:01:14] Speaker B: Uh, I don't know about the dancing for me, but.
[01:01:20] Speaker A: Well, take the government.
[01:01:22] Speaker B: Thanks.
[01:01:25] Speaker A: Even though it's hard, so good.
[01:01:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:01:29] Speaker A: If there are any inspiring actors, dancers, musicians, art, self advocates wanting to make their chosen field, their chosen field, what are some action points you would give them?
[01:01:55] Speaker B: Oh, God, I don't even know. Like, uh.
I. I don't know, to be honest, I don't know how I got here. I just kind of ended up. I would just say, like, be true to yourself and, you know, follow where your soul leads you.
I think that's just the best general advice I can give for anyone. But especially in acting, like, it's going to be a hard career to do.
So, I mean, comparatively to what? Like, there are much, like, harder. Like, they're harder career. Like. I don't want to even talk about what's harder and what's not, but, yeah, it. It can be a very inconsistent industry. So just kind of, like, stay patient and, you know, sharpen up on your skills.
[01:03:04] Speaker A: So I like to think, and I really hope that both people with disabilities and those who have yet to discover are embraced their own disabilities, both legend and watch program.
But I'm not naive to think that both groups will take the same things away from each episode. And we've talked about a lot of topics on this episode. As my guests, what do you hope that people that advocates with disabilities take away from everything we've talked about? And what do you hope that people who have yet to discover are in braids their own disabilities take away from the zeppelin?
[01:04:21] Speaker B: Um, yeah, I think, just don't be too hard on yourself. Don't.
Everybody has different sets of strengths and challenges, disabled or not. And I think at the end of the day, we should be able to acknowledge other people's struggles and. But also their, you know, their wins, their successes, their happiness, like, and to just look at people with compassion and, you know, and stand firm in what you believe in, and don't be afraid to voice your mind, because nobody else is going to do it, especially if you're around a lot of neurotypicals, I've found, so just speak up because somebody wants to say it. And, yeah.
[01:05:15] Speaker A: What do you hope that neurotypicals are? What is academically referred to as temporarily a world, body or task.
What do you hope that they take away from everything we've talked about?
[01:05:41] Speaker B: Again, very similar. You know, just kind of keep an open mind to the people around you. Just because you may not understand what somebody's going through or what somebody's doing based off of a few second interaction, like, you know, shouldn't warrant any, like, I don't know, any, like, negative reactions or things like that. I think that if we can all just, you know, take a minute and recollect ourselves and, you know, show compassion to the people around us, I think that, you know, life just gets a lot easier.
[01:06:22] Speaker A: Madison, I want to thank you again so much for coming on. This has been such a great interview, and I really appreciate and admire your authenticity and the entire cats. It's, again, addicting and euphoric to be around it, even for a few minutes to a few hours and seeing it brought to life on stage. If someone wants to learn more about you or follow your growing career, how would they be able to do that?
[01:07:23] Speaker B: My Instagram is my name, Madison Kopec. With a period between Madison and Kopec, I'm most active on there.
So that's probably where I would say is best to look out.
I'm not very good at social media, to be honest, so I'm still working on that, but Instagram is where I usually am.
[01:07:53] Speaker A: Well, Madison, again, feels like the fifth time I thanked.
I'm always touched that people are excited to come on this program and talk about everything related to being disabled and living authentically in a village world. I do hope you will come back soon. I hope we run into each other, and I.
I look forward to seeing you again on your next big show.
[01:08:51] Speaker B: Thank you.
[01:08:51] Speaker A: I know you were at 54 and below right before this.
[01:08:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:08:59] Speaker A: Congratulations.
[01:09:01] Speaker B: Thank you.
[01:09:02] Speaker A: Say hi to all of your friends for me.
[01:09:07] Speaker B: Will do.
[01:09:07] Speaker A: Again.
Even though I'm not autistic, I grew very attached to this production because of the long overdue of thinking, catching, and the amount of love, care, and heart that emanated throughout every note and every syllable that came out on the stage. And so thank you again for being a part of that.
[01:09:48] Speaker B: Thank you. That means a lot and thank you so much for having me on. I love to talk about disability representation or empowerment. Always down to chat.
[01:10:08] Speaker A: You have been living listening to disability empowerment. Now I would like to thank my guests, you, Olezana, and the Disability Empowerment team that made this episode possible.
More information about the podcast can be found at disability empowerment or on our social media ad disability empowerment. Now the podcast is available wherever you listen to. Podcasts are on the official website. Don't forget to rate, comment and share the podcast. Then submit episode of Disability Empowerment Knowledge. Copyrighted 2024.
