Everything Depeche Mode with Alaina Morin

[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome to disability empowerment. Now Bonitz episode. I'm your host, Keith Mevidi. Ginsini. Today I'm talking to Elena Morin, a former social worker and challenged baron professional and my former college colleague. Elena, so great to see you again. [00:00:42] Speaker B: It's great to see you, Keith, and I'm really honored that you invited me. Thank you. [00:00:47] Speaker A: Well, you certainly changed my life. But before we get to that very important topic, let's go back to how we met in 2005. No. Cause I was for 2006, at the end of old six legs. We both attended a small college, and it was small kids. Everyone knew everyone. It was like high school all over that. Inside it was called the College of Santa Fe. [00:01:43] Speaker B: Yeah, it's like a high school of dorms. [00:01:48] Speaker A: Pretty much. Pretty much. What do you remember from that delightful time? [00:02:01] Speaker B: I think. Were we introduced by Scott Selden? [00:02:05] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, we. We definitely. Why? [00:02:10] Speaker B: All right, so my memory serves me correct. Yeah, I mean, I think I just remember we had a lot of long night chats. I remember just about anything and everything. You're very philosophical, and I think we got along that way. You were always easy to share thoughts with without judgment. [00:02:31] Speaker A: Thank you. I tried to maintain that quality over the years as, like, bad shits me on the head sometimes. But the real reason of the real way that we connected, apart from what you just said, is you introduced me to a band that I would probably not have found any other way except to you, the electronic powerhouse music group the punch load. How did you. Fudge discovered the bench load. [00:03:28] Speaker B: That's great. You know, and I thought about that all week because I knew you and I had talked previously, and we're talking about their last album, so in junior high is when I really got into them. But it goes further back than that, so enjoyed. The silence came out at the end of 1989, just the very beginning of 1990. And that was when I was four years old. So my memory was just kicking in. My uncle had just been married. My aunt got married. There's two back to back marriages. And my great grandmother passed away. And then dipesh mode's enjoy the silence came out very like. So all my memories formed right at that moment. Um. [00:04:06] Speaker A: Wow. [00:04:07] Speaker B: Yeah. And, uh, my dad and mom and us, my brother and I would be in the car. My dad drove the celica, so kind of like a low key sports car. And we'd be going to the gym at night, and that song would come on, and I just always remember my dad cranking it and just like, we'd all just be bopping and I think, you know, it came on the radio again. It was like years. Depeche mode just seemed to disappear off the radio. I think the nineties took a really different turn and wasn't as into their music. And they were playing it on w cy, our local alternative rock station. And they're like, kick back to our rock gods. And they're like, depeche mode. And the song came on, and I was like, this song? I loved this song. And so I ran out. I was like, who is this? Who is this? I recorded it, and, you know, we used to have cassette, so I hit record if I liked a song, and my brother like, that's Depeche mode. And there you go. Ran out, got their albums, and it trickled from there. [00:05:06] Speaker A: So in researching this episode, because I had never really done that, I listened to all their albums backwards and forwards for the past week, almost too. I've watched every album documentary that they put out. I would didn't read a book about them, but then I would like the music way more important. Uh, the album I really gravitated to, as you very well know. Uh, in fact, I mean, that you remember that, and that's the one of the first things you recalled about me, which, what's very sweet, a darker album of theirs. After the mega mega hit violator, they recorded a very dark album called Songs of Faith and Devotion. [00:06:45] Speaker B: Yeah. So we'll go down songs of faith and devotion. But let me ask, are you okay after listening to the full catalog for a week or two? [00:06:56] Speaker A: Oh, yes, yes. I could not be more prepared. I think your husband would take exception to me. Even though Vincy's a bonus episode and there are no rules with time constraints. I think he would take exception to 5 hours later there about the bench mode. I mean, I knew she loved that bandaid, but damn. [00:07:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Viewers and listeners, we're gonna go song by song for the. Until the catalog's finished. Yeah, yeah. [00:07:47] Speaker A: No, but really, I found that experience really enlightening because I had never really done that. The album that they came out of with when we were in college together, words, sounds of the universe, and one song in particular has always made me think of you in sympathy because of where we were and how. Yeah, moving on. [00:08:36] Speaker B: That one's intense. I wasn't. That's not one of my favorite ones by them, admittedly, but it has some songs that really, like, if you're willing to delve into it, I think I know what you're describing. It really is like, it's emotionally charged, and there's something haunting about that album they used. They. That was when eBay was like coming about and they ordered a bunch of synthesizers from eBay. So even like Casio keyboards. And so the sounds on sounds of the universe are just so spacey and out there, it just. It makes you feel like you're. It's surreal, you know? [00:09:15] Speaker A: Yeah. So the point I was trying to make of fudge. Phone call in about ten years. [00:09:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:27] Speaker A: We were discussing the new album that judge came out. I forget the name. [00:09:38] Speaker B: Memento Mori. [00:09:40] Speaker A: Memento moy legion to every album. With the loads and hides of every album. I can see how they got and how they needed to get to every album. Like, I consider violator, which was very much a grower on me. The pitch mode friends, please don't hate me. I should said that, but I consider that side a in songs to be side b. [00:10:33] Speaker B: Yes. [00:10:34] Speaker A: Consider Ultra, which was the album ABD, which was even more darker than side aim of an exciter to be side b. And I do that with other groups like Queens Night at the Albright, side a, day at the races b. YouTube's Georgia side a, Acton Babies. Be that just how I roll with music. Um, but I think the early edge album that really helped me was some great reward. Cause they had a incredibly haunting love song called somebody and that which ending to that. It's very evocative song about all the positive qualities, mostly positive that a partner is looking for for in another part now and then. The twitch ending is, even though these things make me sick tonight, I will get away with it. [00:12:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:23] Speaker A: It's basically a love song that transforms into a song about not finding the love of your life, but thinking comfort in a one night stand. [00:12:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:45] Speaker A: If you know anything about Martin Gore, he's always satisfied and really twisting the 9th in. [00:13:00] Speaker B: I think that's what draws me to them. You know, I was thinking about that earlier today, is I was like, they're. I described them as. And I was reading a critic who felt this way, too after memento Mori came out, is they're ominous. There is something that they will, like you said, kind of gut ya right at the end of the song or in the middle of the song, and there's something like they're, like, alluring. They're almost like, luring you to their lair, and they're like. And then they're just gonna kind of kill you, but you're gonna kind of enjoy it and just like. And you're like, cool. Like, I'm on this plane with you and I think that's what's been so magical about them, is you. They sing about the human emotion. And so almost every song, there are some direct songs. Like, somebody. Right. And I was even thinking about that today, like, little 15 is very direct. You know, it's not too complex, but the majority of their music, it could be about the heroin addiction. Right. It could be about alcoholism, it could be about politics. It could also be about a romantic relationship, and it could just be about your own relationship with yourself or with a higher power. [00:14:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:08] Speaker B: I think the fact that Depeche mode always leaves a question in their song allows the viewer and listener to place it into their hearts the way they need to, rather than being right in their minds. [00:14:19] Speaker A: Yeah. So what impressed means so much about songs of faith and devotion? And it's one of the albums I will happily live and die for about, is because they mix in that album, both romantic and sexual, long sexual relationship, with some very deep, deep, deep songs about faith in a higher power. Even though Martin Gore, who did grow up in the church, it's like, I don't believe, but I'm always curious. And so that. And I just like how that entire album, particularly, they're bouncing back and forth, back and forth between the topics sometimes Simon Taylor, throughout a lot of the songs, but the song on that album, like, somebody in on some great reward, did song on songs that really hooked me in. And I'm pretty sure you already know what I'm gonna say and can read my mind here. It's in your room. [00:16:21] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:16:22] Speaker A: That song, I mean, it combines every type of desire, every type of kink, every type of devotion into one massive explosion of a song. And I would. I'm still spellbound by oh, yeah, yeah. [00:16:56] Speaker B: So, I I got into that album more because of you, actually. That was not my top listen in my younger years. And then you, um, were so into it in college that I finally was like, okay, I'm gonna give it, like, the full attention it needs. And I'd always skipped. I was like, I don't like this one. This one's too intense. I can't do this. Like, whatever. And then once I, like, just actually heard it in sequential order, I think in your room was always my favorite. It was on a greatest hilts album that I'd first bought when I was getting into them at 14, and. But the version I'd heard, Washington, what they call kind of their bastardized version, it was what the radio edit was, and so it's kind of a rock version, and on the album. It's jazzy, right? It has, like. But then it has, like, the, like, chorus of gospel singers and these, like, haunting voices and the jazz sound underlaying it, and yet these, like, drums that are like war drums. And you're like, what is happening? And I think it's. It's so, um. Both versions are incredible, I think. I love the album version more. It's vulnerable. Yeah. I think that's what's incredible. What you're describing is these things about all of us, right, internally are all vulnerable things. For us to expose that, be sitting with it, to just accept who we are and really face ourselves in the mirror is quite a terrifying prospect. And like I said, and you can place whatever you need to into that song. And that's what's so incredible about. About them. [00:18:32] Speaker A: Every song on that album. And thank you for saying that I got you into that, because if. If anyone knew me at the college of Santa Fe, and you definitely were one, I would not shut up about that album. It was like. [00:19:01] Speaker B: Well, you even sang it with your band. It was. Have you told your listeners you were in a band? [00:19:06] Speaker A: Yeah. No, actually, no. But now that you bring that up. Yeah, we were called formula revelations. And I had actually done pre production on another group's music several years prior, and I just needed to come up with a name for that group. So I used that name and said, hey, do you mind if I steal that? And she'll go ahead? And so, yeah, I sang a somebody in your room. The bottom line I attempted in sight. But that album in particular, every. From ivory to higher Tourette's. Yeah, I think that's barrage track on that. [00:20:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:20:22] Speaker A: Rob, it should. Every type of motion, every situation. And unlike violator, which would have very, very collaborative, very, very joyful in the creation pod sets, that album and the subsequent tour was anything but collaborative. Mood, ride, and it nearly destroyed the band. And I'm just thinking that album would have been a fitting ending to tap off the. Because if you look at the songs on both violator and songs, those two albums are some of the most prolific. Walking in my shoes, condemnation, mercy in you, a song about God and following God. [00:21:56] Speaker B: Write with me is one of my favorites. Yeah. [00:22:02] Speaker A: And get right with me. [00:22:04] Speaker B: Judas is on that one, isn't it? Yeah. [00:22:08] Speaker A: And then we get to Ultra, which is next level. Yeah, next level. Darkness, recovery. [00:22:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:22] Speaker A: It starts out really, really well. [00:22:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:28] Speaker A: The large three tracks on that album, feed state the bottom line and insight. It's like going through a very dark tunnel and you get out on the other side and then they continue that dreads explodion on Exciter, which is why those two albums in particular make the most sense as side a and side b. But, yeah, those four albums are not easy legends. [00:23:26] Speaker B: No, I tend to. I tend to skip over ultra and exciter a lot. And definitely songs of faith and devotion I have to be in the mood for. I'll go through my phases when I need. Like, I often can't do condemnation. I could when I was younger, I was really into that song. And the older I've gotten, the more intense that song is. But, like, write with me. Higher love, mercy. And you are just like. [00:23:51] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, their power, not higher. Correct. Higher love. [00:23:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Higher love and Judas I've always been a fan of. It's. It's so. Especially, like living in Maine, I always feel like it's like this kind of fall like song. It's a little strange. And I think I. When you hit ultra, it's like the ego fighting for. Fighting itself. Right. It's like when you're on violator, you're on there, like. Like you said. Well, it's strange that it's an album that. Yeah, they weren't getting along on. [00:24:28] Speaker A: What's bizarre is they were getting along really well on violator. They weren't at all own souls. [00:24:41] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. Well, that's what I thought because I was like, violator was their biggest tour, but then I was like, maybe I'm. It's been a long time since I watched a patch mode 101, so I was like, maybe I forgot that fact. Violator. I felt like they were like. So when you're listening to the album, to me, always implied, like, we're here to stay. So that's. Why were they not getting along? I was like, I thought they were. They were on their. And also they, as they described from what I've read, is they weren't expecting their fame to get bigger. Right. Most bands start out high and then kind of lower. And Depeche had this, like, slow, steady climb. And just when they thought they had hit their highest on music for the masses, they were like, that was big. You know, they were like. We were huge documentaries. Wanted to know what we were up to. Like, we were invited to. They finally went to the MTV awards, right? All these years and no one invited them. And here they are doing strange love, and then it's like, you get to violate her and they're like, just when we thought we couldn't get bigger, now where we are enormous and I think when you listen to it, it feels like we're here to stay. Don't move over. Like, don't tell us who we are. Like, don't tell us what to be. There is this power ness to it. Even when you watch them in concert. Dave was just, like, looking his best. You know what I mean? It's like he had this, like, they had this cool guy look. You know, the crosses around their neck, they were like. It's funny because if you look at Charlie Puth, the current, like, producer songwriter, have you heard any of his music? [00:26:13] Speaker A: No. [00:26:14] Speaker B: Look him up. He's literally like a little mini Dave Gahan, you know, for the violator era. And it's funny because it's like they're, like, trend setting, you know, like 30 years ahead. And then I think you're right. You get you. You start moving through his drug addiction, right, in songs of faith and devotion. He overdosed on that tour. And you can hear the suffering, you know, on that album. And I think Ultra is kind of like. You said that. That trying to push through bit. And it's. But it's also a special album. Like, sister of Night is just so, like, there's these ups and downs. It's like you go through barrel of a gun where you're like. You are fighting for life. Literally. Your ego is crawling to try to survive. And then you're an insight in sister of night, and you're like, what am I on? And then you're like, it's no good. And now you're kind of going through this recovery phase of. That's right, I'm the cool guy. And it's like, this album is just like, what is happening when you're listening to Ultra? And so I tend to, like you said, pick and choose which part of Ultra I'm listening to. [00:27:25] Speaker A: And then exciter. For me, it's probably about droids, rediscovery while also getting through the lads few legs of recovery. [00:27:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:42] Speaker A: I mean, but violator and exciter, if you want to do a quartet of albums that. [00:27:55] Speaker B: Oh, totally. [00:27:58] Speaker A: But you're right. It's like black celebration and music for the matches. They were like, okay, we have reached our genius apex. And they. It was the music straw riot. [00:28:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:27] Speaker A: Violator even came out preceded by personal Jesus selling ads in single, like, 1 million. [00:28:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:41] Speaker A: Some astronomical number that everything took off for them in a way that no one had predicted. You mean, you asked me at the top of the episode, am I okay going through all the albums back to front? I actually feel very invigorated. And as I said, I've never done that and, like, construction time again. And what preceded a broken frame of probably the training weird of the lyrics of gore. [00:29:41] Speaker B: Yes. [00:29:42] Speaker A: And then a spigen spell judge and fit in to the canon and. [00:29:51] Speaker B: Yeah, that's the first one, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, that's. That's because they've had Vincent Gore or Vincent Clark. Yeah. Thank you. You know, Vincent lives 40 minutes up the road from me. [00:30:05] Speaker A: Okay. I hope you have. [00:30:10] Speaker B: I have yet to meet him. I hope every day, like, maybe I'll run into this man. But his kids, like, my friends taught his kids. My friends were teachers at this Montessori school. And they're like, some guy, they saw that I, like, depeche on Facebook, and they were like, it was like, ten years ago or 15 years ago now. And they're like, oh, my God. They're like, Vincent Clark's kid comes to my school and came in and sold a synthesizer. And I thought it was a joke when he told me he was going to bring a synthesizer for an auction. And I was like, okay, man, whatever. And she's like, hundreds of people showed up, and we're like, should. Did I miss something? Who is this guy? And she's like, people were like, oh, my God, it's the guy from erasure in Depeche mode. And so it was a completely different sidetrack. Yeah, he lives in Maine. And so, yeah, kind of crazy. So speak and spells. Definitely a very different sound and not where they wanted to be. And that's pretty clear. And I can agree with you more about the training wheel statement that I also want to say that construction time again is so at the same time, underrated and overlooked and broken frame is. Broken frame is their. Their dark side. Right. Was definitely. They're like, how dark can we get? And how many people will listen? And then I. And kind of slow and methodical. There's something really hypnotizing. Almost hearkens to exciter. Yeah, you get back to joy again and you kind of feel broken frame again. You're like, oh, we're just back to like, this is just exists because this is what they're feeling and it's good. And then, um, I think, bro, I think construction time is definitely their, like, hey, it's the eighties. What sounds can we make? And probably a little too much excitement and drugs going on, but it was. The more I listen to it, the more it's like, there are songs on there. I don't know. The titles of the songs. To be honest, I just listened to it because it is so exciting. It's like there's something really fun about that albumen. [00:32:21] Speaker A: So the song that I was most captivated by because I actually listened to that album was a question of lust. [00:32:39] Speaker B: Is it on that one? [00:32:41] Speaker A: Yes. [00:32:41] Speaker B: Wow. What? No, seriously, it is. [00:32:46] Speaker A: Because with a title like that, you're. You are expecting a totally different song than the one you get. [00:33:03] Speaker B: Are you sure question of lust is not on black celebration? [00:33:07] Speaker A: No. On construction time again. [00:33:11] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. Sometimes, like I said, some of their albums, I just kind of. I just listened to. [00:33:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:20] Speaker B: I hate to tell you, I'm going to defend my black celebration claim here. Question of lust is on black celebration. [00:33:28] Speaker A: Oh, really? [00:33:29] Speaker B: Don't mess with my black celebration knowledge. That's one of my favorites by them. [00:33:34] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I don't know how I minced that. Good. [00:33:43] Speaker B: You went through the full catalog. You're probably feeling a little dizzy. [00:33:47] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I. Yeah, no, I'm totally, like, if ever there was a way to be high without doing copious amounts of drugs, booze, and sex, I'm there. Uh, but, yeah, you're right. Uh, so. [00:34:16] Speaker B: So I'm. Look, now I'm looking up construction time because I'm like, no, I know the song titles. I know which one, so. Told you so. [00:34:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:24] Speaker B: Is just phenomenal. It's that it, like, takes you on. It's like. Starts out with that laser sound. Right. It's like. And you're like. It's like a disco song. You're like, oh, right. And then I think. And then is such a good ending to the album. It's got this, like, really, like, hopefulness to it. And those are my two favorites. But two minute warning and. Oh, and everything counts. Is obviously there. Everything counts as the best on construction time. [00:34:56] Speaker A: Yeah, that would really be the real big one. [00:35:04] Speaker B: Sorry to throw you there for a loop on construction. I was like, no, no, no question. Because black celebration, if I may. Yeah, I don't want to take over the conversation I've listed. So I actually went down on Facebook. You can see my Facebook page. I did 23 of the most influential albums of my life listed. Black celebration went through heavy phase of my teen years on that one. And it's. To me, I don't know. Have you ever listened to Pink Floyd's dark side of the moon yet? Very much reminiscent of that. Right. It's a concept album. Every song flows together. It's the only Depeche mod album that does that, where the songs don't end. They continuously seep into each other. And I think for me, like, stripped is, again, makes me feel the same way songs and faith and devotion does with, like, in your room is strip is so. But, like, the opposite. Instead of being vulnerable, he is so, like, confident. And I don't know, that's. That's my whole thing with black celebration, I think their level. Martin Gore is, like, showing who he really is on black celebration. [00:36:20] Speaker A: Yeah. And so a question of bloods. And that album also had a question of time with. But when you're. When you're looking at a zone title, like, a question of what's you're thinking. You already know what you're going to get. [00:36:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:49] Speaker A: The chords of that song, it's incredibly romantic, central. And I like, okay, they meant title then, but no, it ends with a question of lust. And so it's songs you think you know well, they're about until you listen to them, that curveball. But, yeah, it was. I think they really started to hit their high. [00:37:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:41] Speaker A: When they got to some great reward. And then black celebration and music for the Matzids really catapulted them. And they thought that was the apex. And then violator came and it, like, we had to go back to some great reward and talk about people. Or people. [00:38:19] Speaker B: Oh, I mean, their biggest club hit. [00:38:25] Speaker A: Large village rumors, particularly that. [00:38:31] Speaker B: So, you know, um, rumors which. You know what? So I'm terrible. Like I said, some great reward. Something to do. Yeah. Sometimes I just need to see the order of the songs. And then I'm like, oh, yeah. I hear, oh, blasphemous rumors. Yeah, that's it. Sorry. Slow. Don't you hate getting older? [00:38:53] Speaker A: Yeah, I love it. [00:38:55] Speaker B: And I hate it. Like, there's, like, all these things I love, and then there's these things where you're like, dang, I always thought my parents were so weird. I'm like, how can you not remember your favorite stuff? And you're like, oh. Because when your band's like, 44 years, you know, going, you start to forget the order of songs. You're like, what song? Um, blasphemous rumors was awesome. So my mom's, when I was 14, and re get, like, rediscovering them, right. And getting into them. Um, my mom's boyfriend at the time was Hungarian. Uh, and so, like, makes a call to his brother, right, who lives in Germany and is like, yo, hook this girl up. And so I got all these, like, mix cds that his brother had bought and, like, depeche Mode and aha. And all these groups. And Depeche Mode had a catching up with Depeche Mode, a b side album with a few of their hits, you know what I mean? To just kind of fill in the gaps in the eighties, you know, back when we had albums in vinyl and blasphemous rumors on that one. And so I think that was one of the hooks for me with Depeche Mod, right? Was a band willing to just so blatantly talk about death and call out higher power. And the belief in higher power was just like, oh, these are my people, you know? [00:40:17] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And it's not a attack on the church. I don't know why I keep trying to minimize the recording video. Uh, but, like, it doesn't matter. It's also a song that makes me think of all friendship way back then. [00:40:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:47] Speaker A: Like somebody we've already talked about in my fawning over that song. But then you have Madster and 7th, which is, again, very blatantly obvious and very unapologetic about. [00:41:12] Speaker B: Very, very unapologetic. I think, you know, I was talking about Master and servant earlier today because I was, like, thinking about, like, my favorite songs with them. I was like, I know we were going to talk. So I was like, what? What means something? I always took the song as really obvious, and then as I got older, I realized, like, this is also a song. Again, you could place a few things in this. Right? When domination is the name of the game and you bet on your life, it's all just the same. There's kind of this concept that, like, that could be politicians and us, right? Is. Are we voting for the president or is he the one dominating, you know, voting, you know what I mean? Like, who's got the control in the. In, in this? And, um, I think, again, it's magnificent because, well, I think we all know it really is about, um, sacks knowing who Martin is and that he's a dirty, dirty, dirty boy, you know, on the inside of his mind. Um, if you listen to any of the albums and sequence, I think we also know he's very politically driven, and I think he always has loved to teeter that line. I think he had fun with that with his fans. It's cheeky, you know what I mean? It's very british to be like, I'm probably talking about sex, but, you know, maybe I'm also talking about who owns who in the game of life. [00:42:32] Speaker A: And it's like black celebration started off with the title track, but then it got to an incredible song. Fly on the windscreen, which should rot the hounds and is such a great metaphor. Human existence. It's judge and then you get a question of what's stripped later on, but not tonight is a good bead side. And it's like going through that entire album, getting to their graded hats, and then you get to music for the medicids and you think, well, Vinci's the. Again, the pinnacle of their career. You have. [00:43:50] Speaker B: That's kind of their opus. [00:43:52] Speaker A: So many great songs, songs that you would know but not have any idea you knew unless you knew who the band was. [00:44:10] Speaker B: I think if I'd been them and written behind the wheel, right, and you, like, put it together and released it, I think I, as a band, would have been like, yep, we're never going to do better than this. [00:44:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:20] Speaker B: I honest to God, would have felt that way recording that song. Like, you know, we're never creating anything cooler than this. And somehow, like you said, violator blew the socks off of music for the masses. And it doesn't make any sense because how does a band do that? How did a band make two back to back and like I said, and black celebration even preceding it? Well, it wasn't the knock the house off for everyone in the world, right? It's not a global album, it's a Depeche mode fan albumen in the Depeche mode world, right, we see that as, like, they're becoming men. They've come to, they're singing, they're lullabying women, they know what they want, they're telling you how life is and they're, like, confident in who they are. And then it's like, music for the masses becomes. I think that's their seductive luring you into their lair and, like, killing you softly album. They're just like, you know what? Just like, you know, let me be sexy and weird and dark and scary and tell you about the scary side of life and you're going to kind of like it and I'm going to make you feel safe while I do it. And you're like, what is happening? Like, as you're listening to music for. [00:45:28] Speaker A: The masses, like, I mean, a black celebration fly on the windshield and then you have never let me down and behind the wheel on music for the mad Sid and strange love, too. And then you have stripped on black. I mean, those songs should say nothing of little 15 and to have and I want you now. And then you get to violator, where you have the two avids, big mammoths songs which are personal Jesus and enjoy the silence. But you have so much more on that album. [00:46:32] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:46:33] Speaker A: Only nine songs. Which policy of truth is one I really gravitated to because that song could mean anything. Multiple meanings in judge one legend. [00:47:00] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Policy of truth still perplexes me. Yeah. Like, it's. It's like, do I just listen to this and put my black sunglasses on and just drive to the sunset, you know, and just, like, ride it as I'm, like, cranking that? Like, do. Do you know that sound? Or, like. Or do you sit there and really put yourself in it? And I can never choose when I listen because it's a new thought every time. You're like, well, they could be talking about this. They could be, like, talking about that. Like, you could be. It's so, um. And points to our flaw, right. That. That's another Depeche mode specialty is, like, none of us are perfect. [00:47:41] Speaker A: Yeah, we. [00:47:42] Speaker B: You know, maybe you should just learn to, like, maybe just keep your mouth shut. And there's something. Again, just like, how do you do that as a band is tell everybody, like, lie. [00:47:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:47:53] Speaker B: Like, you should have lied. And you're like, only Depeche Mode can get away with making that sound cool. [00:48:01] Speaker A: Yeah. And then you have the later albums, Abda Exciter, which are very, very different, very more varied because you have Dave Dan Scott writing and singing song, and I'm too excited. It's. It's a brand new phase of the band. And not judge because there are now two songwriters. And Martin had song on select songs hit zobro. In my opinion, it's somebody. He sung naked in the music video. [00:49:08] Speaker B: I've never watched it. [00:49:10] Speaker A: Alan wide had to turn the channel around because they closed him up when they released. [00:49:26] Speaker B: That's funny. [00:49:27] Speaker A: Performed dark naked. And so the ABD sounds the album quality. Like, I can progeed Delta machine for the extremely personal nature. And then had the political scene of not gone the way it did. Spirit will probably be a totally different album. Yeah, it's like the new album. They said, both of them, that the subject matter would have stayed the same on that album had Andy Fletch not died, literally days before. Martingal would suppose to send out demos. And he always loved. And if you look up one interview and watch it with your husband, I really assume and hope he's at the pet mode. [00:51:04] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah, he's gone down the rabbit hole with me. [00:51:06] Speaker A: Good. [00:51:09] Speaker B: He has declared Duran Duran is number one out of my catalog. But I'll accept that as a. Because Durandrin comes in a close second for me, but I definitely. I also think Depeche mode. If we're talking about Depeche Mode fans, right? Like, we know that they're like, as Dave said, right on smart list. He's like, they pray at the altar, Depeche mode, you know, it's like, literally there's this kind of weird religion and cult with Depeche mode fans. And I think there's, like, the side fans, right? There's the people, like my husband, who are like, I can listen to them, but he's not gonna do it if I'm not there, you know? I mean, and it's funny because listening to smart lists there that way, like, Sean Hayes is the Depeche mode praise at the altar. You know, he's like, it's in my ear pods. I'm like walking down a Broadway to go rehearse, and it's literally in my head every day. But will Arnett's like, I'm along for the ride. Like, I appreciate them, but I'm not like, unless Sean's there, I'm not really, like, only a few of their songs are scattered in my playlist. I'm not going down the albums. And, like, me, I'm like, I pray at the altar. It's like there's an album. I'm in a depression phase. Just ask me which one I'm in each week, you know, like, like, I. [00:52:30] Speaker A: I had to legend to every album, had to watch every album documentary. Cause I knew that, yeah, I would introduce you as a former social worker. We would trans in the Santa Fe dates for like a hot second, but then we would get to the badge and that would, uh, dominate the rest of the episode. And so before I had done that, it was songs ultra excited. The newer albums that went out of the classical era of. And when they were more dark in a classical sense, in trying to figure that out. Uh, their great. Their beds of album had a bead side from playing the angel, which I gravitate to everyday modder because great beside object matter. Uh, and that's not hard to figure out. And the closing lines of good night lovers, the final track, I assume final on exciter. If you're born a lover, you're born to suffer. [00:54:31] Speaker B: Yeah, that's such a good one. [00:54:33] Speaker A: Judge that one line. Why would you need any other line in that album? It's judged. And so, and so going through all of the albums, I can appreciate the latter albums podge sounds and see why they had to go where they went. But really playing the angel is really the mods cohesive album that you could really legend from start to vintage and around. Like in sympathy. I always think of you because of everything you were dealing with. [00:55:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:47] Speaker A: But. And come back peds, they. They do great lead off singles that always reinvents the musical wheel. And I remember telling you, I got the music video box set. [00:56:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:14] Speaker A: And I literally spent 5 hours on the floor watching that legend to every commentary because I could judge not get enough on. Very much intended. [00:56:35] Speaker B: Well, and then. Yeah, right, exactly. Just good enough. I love that Antoine Corbin, they've collaborated with him on music videos now for 30 years. And it's actually 34, right? Since. Since violator. And no even music for the masses. Sorry, I stand corrected. It's actually been almost 40 years. And it's crazy. Again, I know other bands collab and often have frequent producers and people, but what other band can say? We met a music producer, a videographer in 1987, and he's been doing our music videos ever since, like solo this man, you know, like no other person. It's their. Their dedication. And like I said, and I'm glad you listened to them in subsequent order because it is a journey with Depeche mode. And like I said, their journey. And while Delta Machine and spirit are definitely kind of the flyover albums, it's, you know, playing the angel like Sid is. Is interesting. It comes after Dave first foyer into his solar career, and he had stretched his voice limits a lot. And so I think playing the angel has this different tonality where he learns that he can really move his vocal cords more than he understood. We give a rawness to it. Right. There's kind of this, like, accept that midlife, you know, thoughts of, like, we're closer to dying maybe than we are to youth starts to really kind of. Right. There's a. There's pleading with God on that album. Kind of this, um, tolerance towards our dark side and our good side. There's this total acceptance at that moment on that album. [00:58:22] Speaker A: And then there's a incredibly personal song to go because he was going through a nasty divorce at the time, and so he wrote the song pre shits for his kids, which became a massive hit. And that's one of the only songs in which he says what it's actually about. [00:58:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:59:01] Speaker A: I remember to go full back the song, none of them, like, it's a bead side called. It's called a haunt. [00:59:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:59:20] Speaker A: If you just read those lyrics, which I did the other night, I'm like, I wrote this in high school when I was drunk out of my mind. And keep in mind, I did not drink in high school. And it's like, go will probably appreciate that sentiment now. Did I actually write it? No, but the lyric quality is such that, yeah, any teenage boy could have written that on a binder. [01:00:09] Speaker B: It's completely youthful. And I'm saddened, actually, to hear that that's one of their least favorites, because I think it's called a heart is like, again, that's when. That's from that phase where they had these, like, disco sounds. Still, the eighties still had a little disco techie miss to it because people were going to the club. And so here's Depeche mode. Like, we're really dark and feel our feelings. And then they'd like, be like, well, we'll throw out a few club hits on every album. And it's called a heart. Is this like. It just bangs right from the beginning. And I've always loved it because of its simplicity. And you can tell it's a young boy writing it. You're like, who wrote a this? Like, did they write. You really think that? You're like, did Martin have this lyric sitting? And he's like, you know, we're running out of ideas here. Like, is he. I could just picture him flipping through his journal. You know what I mean? Like, I understand his reference that it sounds like a young. Or your reference, that any boy, you know, could just write this, being stupid about some crush who he never even stood a chance with in the first place. And. Yeah, like, I don't know. I mean, again, that's. I think they're brilliance of them. I don't think they should apologize for any singular song because Depeche mod has been so unapologetic. [01:01:27] Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's like. And there's. And I'm down there reading all of the Wikipedia backgrounds on all the albums because, again, talking to you, I had. I couldn't do anything less than that. It was because it's you. Uh, and this is one of your favorite bands. And I found out in the liner notes of the background to, uh, delgamachine, the song written by gore, called slow, written about the droids of sex. Surprise, surprise there. Uh, who likes sex? Don't answer that. [01:02:38] Speaker B: Asexuals might not care. [01:02:40] Speaker A: Yeah, but the bond. [01:02:42] Speaker B: I don't know. Sorry. To asexual. Sorry. I know it's a politically correct world. I shouldn't have said that. [01:02:47] Speaker A: No. With that song that was written back in the zones of faith and devotion else. And so that is the longest time that we know of that a song has been held back. [01:03:14] Speaker B: His lyrics weighted. Yeah. [01:03:15] Speaker A: Multiple different albums. And if you listen to that song, it fits on both delta, but so on songs. [01:03:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, totally. Could have been on songs of faith, because you. [01:03:36] Speaker A: The. The bonage track tracks to, uh, songs, uh, are my joy and then draw, which would. I mean, higher love is a fantastic inning, but if you judge. Include my joy in depth. Go on. After that, it doesn't take away anything from the album. And so you put slow on their edge. Well, a to divorce album becomes even more so, which I didn't think was possible. [01:04:38] Speaker B: I think it's funny that you're. That's a great deep dive. I didn't know that fact because Delta Machine is, like I said, delta machine and spirit probably rank as my least favorites. I think spirit, we could easily just say and chalk it up to the political climate. Right. And they even have kind of alluded to that, that they were just not in a good mood. You know, the world was flipping upside down. We were dealing with what we were dealing with over here. And at the time, they had Boris Johnson. Right. So I think they were feeling. And they live in the US, too now. So I think watching their own homeland. Right, and watching us, they're like, this is a nightmare. And it's clearly reflected on the album that there is no metaphor on spirit. It's a very. Just like, f all of you, what the heck are we doing? Like, there's kind of an anger in their voices and a stress, and I think they knew that. You know, they've kind of alluded to. They've just skipped over talking about that album a lot. They're like, we all know it sucked. Like, they've even said that in interviews, kind of like, yeah, we know that was not a good. And they did say they were feeling very emotional at the time and very overwhelmed. And I think that's not like them. They're usually very dedicated to recording, and I think you could hear them just struggling to, like, focus on, like, their music and their craft versus, like, how they were feeling about the world. And I. Delta Machine, it's funny that you're talking about this fact, because if you think about it, I always felt like Delta was really kind of charged, and songs of faith and devotion is very charged. As we're saying, it has a lot of power to it. And I've had friends who were into depression who loved Delta machine. And I think, again, it's hearing you kind of relay that sounds like there's a similarity. Right. They go back to this kind of emotionally charged moment in their lives and this excitement that songs of faith and devotion have and place it on Delta machine and at the same time weren't going through that same struggle they were going through then. And I think I just felt like it. It was too flat, you know? I mean, it just didn't hit the same way for me. [01:06:51] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, so it sounds really had. If you got a, uh, the deluxe box set, which was not Siv, it cost a pretty penny too. But if you got the iTunes pads, which I did, they gave you like 15 extra demos and remixes. And unsurprisingly, the demos I gravitated to what the song demos. Judith walking in my shoes. But we talked about on a phone call, which was the first time we talked in nearly ten years, is that yoga and spirit aren't necessarily bad albums. Spy over. But what really makes spirit suck even more is because it's the last album to include Fletch. And it's like, I know the pandemic happened all that, but if between Delta and spirit we got one album, and then between spirit and the album post pledge, they gave us one or two more or even a few eps, I think adds a die hard fan, which I'm unshameless about. And I owe that all to you, my very dear friend. [01:09:10] Speaker B: Thanks. [01:09:11] Speaker A: I think that those albums in the timeline would be a lot more accepting in terms of this isn't all we got the last ten years. [01:09:37] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:09:38] Speaker A: The original tree, but. And in retrospect, out of the two or three, Delta is the strongest, in my opinion. But it just hurts that spirit. And the large music video from that album cover me is the latch album and music video they did with flats. [01:10:16] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. You know, and I'll get to my thoughts on memento mori here in a second because I know we've taken up listeners time quite a bit. But what's interesting, I thought I read the other day, and I don't know if you came across this in your studies of them, that this spirit tour was actually one of their best selling tours, that they had actually increased their audience again and went back to their arena days of 60,000, you know, 20,000 people audiences. And again, that's interesting to me that it did that because again, it's not my favorite. And even with songs of faith and devotion, it's. It's known as their top favorite albumen. It's. It's listed as the best one among the public. [01:11:02] Speaker A: And what songs. [01:11:05] Speaker B: Songs of faith is. Yeah. Have you ever read that? It's like, they're top selling. It's their best, like, producing album, like, in terms of the masses, and which says to me again, there's a real big difference between a depashment, somebody praying at the altar every day, versus, like, the public, right? The public liked spirit. The public likes of fate. They like Delta. They liked these raw albums. These are the albums that increase their sales. I think Depeche Mode heads, right? Like, Depeche mode fans, or devotees, as they call us, are more on that. Like, I'm black celebration. You know what I mean? Like, we're in that weird little corner somewhere being like, I thought it was cool before you guys all did corner. And, um. So I don't want to knock spirit. I think you're right. And it. And there is a sadness, too, that that's Andy's last album, because I'm like, dang. And it was relieving to know, I guess, they had mass success on it. I didn't know I missed their tour at that time. And I kind of am like, oh, I didn't realize they sold out. I didn't realize they were doing so well on that tour. And so I'm relieved to know he got to see. See their fame again. And at the same time, there's an irony to memento Mori because it's made them even more famous than even the last album. And I got to see them. I got the pleasure of seeing them on the memento morator. We went up to Quebec, which was an incredible audience. The French are super into them, like no other fans I've ever seen. The place was sold out. It was a 22,000 person arena up there, and there was, like, a party. Quebec was awesome. They, like, have this, the videotron. It's this really cool arena. And they're like, they've got a DJ up front, like, spinning music, and there's lights going while people are just gathering drinks and, like, waiting for Depeche mud. It was crazy. And everybody was singing along. Just everybody was moving. This was not an unlively crowd, very comfortable seating. It was just. It was delightful. I loved Quebec, and I liked memento mori. It took a. The first listen was rocky, and then, like, depeche mode always does. It sinks in. [01:13:36] Speaker A: Yes. [01:13:36] Speaker B: Thinking about it, and you want to hear it again? And I. Your Martin Gore song is somebody, I think mine has to be soul with me off of memento mori, because their journey progresses to memento Mori, and it is sad. By this point, Alan's left them. Right, 20 years, some odd years ago, which also explains a lot of the change in their sound. Right. Like, the two thousands is a whole new world for them. After Alan left after Ultra and. [01:14:05] Speaker A: No, he. He left after the devotion. [01:14:12] Speaker B: Was he after song? Oh, really? Did he leave after. Yeah. Explains why Ultra is so different then, too. And so I think their evolution, you know, they've gone through bandmates and then to lose the stable force. Right. And at the same time, I think. I think there's an irony to Dave and. And Martin forming such an incredible album that I would almost hope that they close out on. As much as I want to hear more music, to some sense, I just want them to call it good. They sound like two old men who are reflecting on a very good, long career and all their wisdom and knowledge. And I think they just hit so high, they sold out. They said what started out as a limited tour turned into a world tour, and a year and a half later, still going, and you're just like. They were like, we had no idea it was going to do this. Well, you know, and to be popular among young people, to have, like, the number one song again, the download, you know, they became the. Because they released music on the show, the last of us became, like, a number one search song overnight. And it was. It's just like, yeah, it is hard to see that Andy passed away and that they're actually more popular than. Than ever. They're. They're now spanning across four generations of human beings. [01:15:34] Speaker A: Yeah. Goal is 62 and Dan is 61, so. And in this day and age, being in your early sixties, not really that old, as long as you take care of yourself. And they're so close to the 50th anniversary. I absolutely get what you're saying. And before I came on to do episodes today, I closed out the spanning with the new album, which is definitely a grower, but it's amazingly poignant. Like, they. They did a interview with, uh, Zach Lowell, uh, who does Apple interviews. [01:16:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:16:49] Speaker A: Wonderful. Uh, and he ended that segment of what kept Fletch coming back, because I never, to my knowledge, heard a Fletch song, never heard him singing. And the band walked. Martin and Dave said in unison, he was the biggest fan of the patch mode. He would go to bar, be very outgoing, rave and rave and rave about the patch mode. That's what kept him in the ban. But, yeah, even. Even reading that the subject matter would not have changed remarkably had fledge not died. There is still a bittersweet, uh, feeling and emotion to that album, particularly when knowing that fledge died days before Gore was going to send the demos to Dave Ann flag. He always loved the demos. Widgets. Again, in that interview, and you mentioned before on a phone call, uh, which I always found very captivating as a fan to hear that Dave and Martin were like, well, what do we do now? [01:19:17] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what I tried to refine that article I had read, but I got close enough to reading about that Andy was really their buffer all this time, and Andy and Martin went to high school together. You know, they were chomps and had formed depash mode. And I forget what their name was. It was some ridiculous name. [01:19:37] Speaker A: Sounds of concept. [01:19:40] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, so I was reading how Dave was always a little jealous that Andy would take Martin's side automatically and kind of lean towards Martin. But then Andy would come in and talk to Dave, and Dave said, I was always like, why can't Martin just come talk to me himself? And he's like, it was always, like, school kid stuff. You know what I mean? Never aggression, but just like. And Dave was very jealous that Martin could write all the music, you know, and wouldn't let him write music. But I guess Martin was always a little overwhelmed that he didn't have more songs on the album that he got to sing. And so there's always this kind of battle because we forget that as bands, they don't get ultimate say, right? Their producers do. And so there was this thing where they said Andy was really their buffer between them and the producers, you know, was helping them to process that this is who we are, you know what I mean? Like, our producers know who we are and what's going to sound good. And it has created the ultimate. Right. Like, if they hadn't listened to their producers, they wouldn't be where they were to some sense. Limiting Martin to two songs on each album, right. Or maybe three, max. [01:20:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:20:54] Speaker B: Is always a really good move. His songs are a little too little too twisted, a little too dark, a little too deep, a little too somber. Dave has a voice that lulls you in, you know? I mean, that is why we're praying at the altar of Depeche. But Martin's backup vocals. Right. Like, without him, I think Dave's solo albums kind of fall flat, to be honest. They. You're missing Martin. His second one, I forget what it was called, but was a little better than the first one. [01:21:25] Speaker A: Devils or something like that. [01:21:27] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:21:29] Speaker A: And their original name, by the way, was composition of sound composition of sound. [01:21:38] Speaker B: That's right. They were laughing about that on smart list. They were dying. Like, what does that mean? Yeah, we obviously know what it means. It's so, again, childlike, right? So not cool. Or Martin. And, you know, so I. Yeah, what I was reading was that they basically in the church, right, were, like, in tears, and their producers there and everybody's there and they're just hugging. And then they said it was just the two of them, and they just looked at each other and were like, now what? Because they were like, Andy had always been the one to keep us in the studio together. We never really actively, you know, reached out if we didn't have to. And they're like, there was this kind of. Well, we already wrote the lyrics. [01:22:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:22:26] Speaker B: You know, like, and we're six weeks away from recording, so let's just do this. And Dave's like, I had already been hesitant about the album. He said he was just getting cozy during the pandemic. You know, he enjoyed being with his family and kids and was like, I don't know if I want to do this anymore. Yeah. And, um, and he said, I've threatened that multiple times. But he goes, the pandemic really forced me to sit still. Um, and he said. And we were just like, I think this is what Andy would want. And so he goes, it really helped us be brothers, you know, and realized kind of were the reason Depeche mode existed all along. And maybe we didn't realize, like, he's like, well, we're. They still give Andy, like, all the credit, like you said, like, the glue, the, like, I'm Depeche one's biggest fan. I think the two of them had to see his death to realize, like, but they're the. They're the voice. They're the reason why we all pray at the altar of Depeche mode. And that Andy was really just kind of the cheerleader, right. Being like, I'll play the song, guys, however you want me to. [01:23:28] Speaker A: When. When Alan was in the band and the Gan solo albums, which are disagree with you on paper, monsters in our glass adds solo albums, I can appreciate how those are his. And it's nice to be able to see him removed from the page. Like, lord's stuff is removed. But then when they come back together, it's like, for better of the words, they're prevention married now. They literally are all that left. And when Fledge died, I think people asked Allen if he was gonna rejoin. [01:24:47] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:24:48] Speaker A: Like, what the fuck? I. What? What kind of question is that? It's like. But yeah, wrapping up Kurds. I do not want to take you away from your family. [01:25:08] Speaker B: Oh, listen, I'm having a blast. I more just don't want to bore our listeners because we're like, oh, remember that time we're in Santa Fe? Yeah, yeah, whatever. With, like, 500 kids in this weird, magical place. Anywho, that cool life experience most human beings don't have. Moving on to Depeche mode. [01:25:26] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I mean, I usually keep episodes down, but since Vinci's the first bonus episode and you're such a dear friend, I'm like, fuck it. If a hut been luncheons go 5 hours, we'll go 5 hours. [01:25:51] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, we can talk as long. [01:25:56] Speaker A: All the live long day, but the way we reconnected is that we don't have to dwell on what caused connection almost ten years ago. Because when I got your message via Facebook, it really blew my socks off and really moved me to tears because you were just coming out of being a soldier worker, and I really never expected to hear from you again. But I always fall fondly of you because of the badge mode. But then I asked you in the message, well, what brought you back? What encouraged you to take the Reds and to reach out again? And I remember what you'd say, said without looking at it, a lot of therapy, a lot of inner work. [01:27:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:27:37] Speaker A: Even though I didn't mean to cause you pain or to cause people with disabilities pain, I realized through therapy and through deep inner walk that even if I don't mean to cause pain, I'm still part of the problem or the issue or whatever. And that judge melted, uh, me in gratitude of that's the real shit. And so calling you up and having that, like, hour, hour and phone conversation like we had just talked months ago on the phone once. Such a joy. And then that got me into doing all the research, which, again, it's about the music and not, uh, the person, which is very odd for me because I usually research the hell out of the persimmon. Our history is nearly 20 years old, so we're nearly the same age to drink for the first time. [01:29:27] Speaker B: Oh, gosh. [01:29:32] Speaker A: No. It's judge. And you got married to your huds band at the end of 2017. [01:29:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:29:44] Speaker A: I still have yet to meet him. I'm hoping to home cook ten meals for you guys to make up for being out of your life for teenage. I'm a horrible cook. No, I'm not. It like this reconnecting with you, and particularly over the music which before rematch by a year or two, I had started like electronic career. [01:30:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:30:31] Speaker A: Myself and I went by the moniker Olay tidbits and I grew up oding on the soundtracks of Sonic the Hedgehog. And then you introduced made to the patch. And then a few years back, I discovered the music of electronic violinist Lynn Zelen. And those are the three bedrocks of why I still do like tranika music to this day. Because it's. It's those types of experiences. And who actually said in that interview, which I quoted earlier when he would act, well, what kind of music do you legend to? And he's like, I listen to all kinds of music. I can't judge legend. Like Tronica, right? [01:32:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:32:02] Speaker A: And I've always subscribed to that lyric box printing, particularly physical leg you can actually hold. Oh, really? One of my love languages ads. A ligid. [01:32:26] Speaker B: Oh yeah. [01:32:27] Speaker A: Writer. They. People thought the ebook would kill the hard back novel. And yet weird. Still growth in hardback novels. Tapes are making a long overdue, uh, comeback. [01:32:55] Speaker B: Yeah, I want mixtapes back. That's my love language. Yeah, give me your songs that make you think of me. And I'm like, we've got a lifelong connection, you know? [01:33:06] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's like. But again, I don't know how I would have discovered that band on my own. I think personal Jesus would have hooked me in drugs because of the bombastic, bougie way of addressing, which is completely the opposite of Bradsland's rumors. But so the. Can't believe I'm about to see this, uh, bulge to the wall format of the. The music and enjoy the silence. Started out as a slow tempo subtract. Imagine far to keep it that way. And it grew into the their juggernaut song that really launched their entire career. And you are their apex. And like, personal Jesus is funky as shit, but I feel you wedding is musically brother and sister, it's like if you just take away the lyrics, that's a very central sexual track. And then in your room and then bride with high love, eds judge, like vincids were getting the instrumentals or remix virgins. Like, there's one remix of Judas Rigid's called Whisper Sex. [01:35:42] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've heard. I know I dive down their mixes. I'm not. I just love what they put on the album. You know what I mean? I'll admit that. That a lot of their mixes, I'm just like, yeah, I've heard that one once or twice. And then I kind of like I have an ultimate depression with this, which has everything, and there's a lot. I'm like, beep, beep, beep. Like, skipping through whatever is not the original. [01:36:06] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I just mentioned that particular mix. [01:36:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Because it's very central. [01:36:13] Speaker A: The title. [01:36:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:36:16] Speaker A: And the fact that it was central. But I really love the Zeppelin mix and deep, cheap mix of in your room when I was led scene to never let me down the other day, I immediately thought of you in your hud bin and judge pictured that. But, yeah, I mean, all of this music is, again, the bedrock of our friendship and why it's such a delight to reconnect and talk to you after so many years, because it all got to come back and it all focused on the music and then springboarding of memory's long paths and what happened with the college, how it transformed into a university and then voted again. [01:37:43] Speaker B: And thankfully, after we left. [01:37:45] Speaker A: Yeah, but, I mean, I got to interview Scott Selden for two episodes. I love it on the pads season. And then I ran in to a film maker, a film student who had spinal Bibia. He was. He worked at the Arizona theater company because his parents also walked there, but it wasn't a token hired. And for some reason, we were at a bar, and for some reason, he handed me his resume and looking through his education, I was like, huh? You went in 2014 to the Santa Fe University of Art and Design. We have too much in. So, yeah, it should like reliving all of the both very good and very bad memories from that time period was very chaotic in interviewing Rio and being able to. Because he was at the university from 14 up until it closed, and he was able to tell me the rants of the story when we and Scott all logged off from the college. And so that was a great episode, reconnecting with you and that long conversation and then this long interview, which is incredible, because at the end of the day, we've only talked briefly on our college experience, and that's important. But the music and the camaraderie that we maintained throughout the music and the fact that I got. That you got me into debate mode, but I also got you into listening to songs of faith and strange, because I cannot overstate that. I would not shut up about that album. If that album had been a woman at the college, my heart would have been broken easily every damn week. [01:41:27] Speaker B: I can testify to that, to our. To our audience. You know, Keith showed a love for that album immediately, the minute it was so funny, too, because. And I'll touch base a little bit on, you know, I think we should revisit, like, rekindling a little bit is, um. But honestly, it was so funny to introduce you to depash mode, and then you just come back and you're like, oh, hey, I'm singing songs from songs of faith and devotion with my band. And it was like, that's the one you picked out. Like, it was. It was, um. It's awesome. Because again, everybody, you know, it was a connection, right. And it's. I'm really glad I could expand you to something different because, um, that's a plot twist I didn't see coming. Right. Was like, this is the one he's coming back with. I gave him the Depeche mode catalog and he's coming back with this one. You know, this is what he picked out and found. And, um. [01:42:20] Speaker A: Well, it was in your room. I mean, the bold songs out of all their catalog that I would have died to have written myself. And my fall will not surprise you at all. Somebody in your room, the bottom line and insight, those are the bold souls that. I mean, somebody in the bottom line are two of the most romantic. [01:43:04] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [01:43:05] Speaker A: That they have. And then a question of what I discovered it. Uh, but judge the. Everything coalesced with in your room and then with insight. And I love how the bottom line proceeded. That could. That's a very romantic song that takes every twitch and turn leg. And then you get to insight, which could be a love song, but could also be booted philosophy. And then you. Legion to Free State, which could see. [01:44:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:44:06] Speaker A: And so the whole end of Ultra is like Legion to it years later. And now I know how. What bridge they took to get exciter. [01:44:27] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. I. So I'll tie, I think a song, you know, from Ultra. We'll bridge right between your favorite and exciter is the song home. You know, another very simple Martin Gore song that goes straightforward. There's no hidden agenda in it. And I think home for me has been one of my favorites my whole life. It was, again on the compilation album I had at 14. And I think, like you said, without going into depths, because we don't remember the audience with my life story, but the vulnerabilities. I think vulnerability is the name of the game, right, is that we're talking about depression and being vulnerable. And I think it took a way longer journey than I wanted to reach vulnerability. And Scott Selden tried to help me with that. And I think that is why he connected us. Right. I think he understood. There's a life lesson to be had. And maybe it took me way longer than one was hoping, but I. I think, you know, as I told you, it's like the vulnerability you showed me, right, the Abi. And we've always been able to be vulnerable with each other. And there's that realization, right, of, like, okay, my life's not going the way I want it to. What am I doing wrong? And there's that sudden realization that there is a severe fear I've had of being vulnerable with people. And even with somebody who's so easily vulnerable with me. And I thought I was being vulnerable with. Obviously, I'm willing to run when it gets to, you know, too much. And that is. [01:46:13] Speaker A: It did get too much at that time. And I remember where I was. I was in and out of sleep clinics trying to figure out had my sleep apnea come back or had he never left me. So I remember the exact moment and then enjoy the silence to, uh, piggyback on that. But no, I totally get it. And shout out to Scott for making that born site, which he couldn't have known, but deep, deep down, he did. And you said something, and I hope you don't mind that I share it. You said on the phone, I'm not an easy person. [01:47:22] Speaker B: Yeah, no, it's like. [01:47:25] Speaker A: And that goes back to the vulnerability. Like, in your room. It's very confident, very seductive, very kinky. Kinky as fuck, but also vulnerable, like, everything. All of the other emotions that I just mentioned cover up the vulnerability. And you can see that when there are charts of the band members getting tied down in that chair, and it's like. And that goes back to the metaphor of master and servant. And I can make too many references to the videos now, but, yeah, it all comes back to that vulnerability, which is why somebody, uh, in addition to being the most romantic song I had heard at that time, and I will live and die at the hope. Lyds romantic. I actually made a joke with a fellow believer that I bet it would be easier for God to remove my cerebral palsy than it would be for him to remove my romanticism. Both budged out laughing. [01:49:25] Speaker B: I mean, that's a true statement. Yeah. [01:49:27] Speaker A: Yeah. At the end of the day, it is God. But it's all about that vulnerability and why those four songs in particular all bulk it around vulnerability and then insight is the empowering Vinci. How you live life. Does it matter what's going on? This is how you live life. And this what your legacy should be, obviously, adding a lot more into that song. Uh, than it's sung, but it's. And yet, so going back to your. [01:50:25] Speaker B: Vulnerability, I think just. Yeah, just giving you credit that, you know, where it's due that, you know, it's, you know, like, it takes a lot for me to reach out to somebody, you know? I think my fear is judgment, you know, and condemnation and there's. I know we all fear it, but I think people don't understand what trauma does, you know what I mean? Until you've experienced it and that, you know, we all can read about it and you have no idea because every situation is so unique and different. And I know everybody goes through it, right. Everybody has unique, different journeys. And not to dispel one over the other, but I think we know my journey is immensely complex, you know, and I think there was, you know, I love that you saw Scott again and Scott's another one. Those I feel so vulnerable to reach out to. I'm too scared. Like, I'm, like, it's been too many years. I don't know what to say. Like, he let me say things and do things in that room that I think anybody else would have, like, put me in jail for, you know. I mean, there was things I could do, like, you know, just that we would laugh. And he, and I think he was the one person who gave me that relief, you know, was just let me laugh about some really dark thoughts, you know, because I don't think anybody could blame me for having those dark thoughts at that moment of just, like, here's, you know, what I would really do, like, in my alternate reality, in the movie version, in the, like, in the graphic comic novel version of my life. Here's how. What step I would have actually done. And I think it's hard, you know, going through that therapy. I even had friends, Keith, who told me I don't. I have a friend who I've known since I was six years old. And when I finally went through the therapy, I reached out to her in September and sent her a long video message because we video each other every day since the pandemic started, which has been nice. [01:52:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:52:27] Speaker B: And we've kept that going now for four years. And I finally, only just this past September, said what had actually happened and how I felt. And she wrote, sent a video back and said, my God, that took you long enough. She goes, Elena, I think you think people know you and that you're letting people in and you don't let anybody in, not even your best friend. And I love you, and I've accepted the reality because she was one of the few people who actually knew what had really happened and had to get pulled into the situation. And it was, I think, helped lead me to think about the people who, like you, like I said, were on my mind for years about, like, you know, I'm running. I'm running from fear, I'm running from vulnerability. I'm running from these things. And, like, I want, you know, like, why. Why am I so scared to connect with others? Why am I so scared to do my calling? Why am I so scared to be around people who are racist me up? And that says a lot, right, Keith, when your own best friend goes, that took you a long time, and I never wanted to bring it up. I didn't want to poke the bear. I didn't want to put you through more. But, holy cow, thank you. And she just said that, thank you for being vulnerable finally and telling me the real you, like, what is really going on in Elena's head. And it took a lot for me to reach out to you. So I really can't thank you enough for being receiving and vulnerable because, of course, there is no expectation for you, too. [01:54:00] Speaker A: Like, like I told you on the phone, had you done it in a year or two, I might have had a different response, but I never thought I. I would ever hear, uh, from you ever again. And. But what kept you on my mind is the patch. And then, uh, you reached out, and that took goods. It took, as you'd said, vulnerability. Wherever I. We laughed. All complicated. Up, down, up, down, up, down, all the way throughout college. And we certainly don't need to go into that. But it's like it all worked out. It all made sense for the region. It did. And again, had we not had the badge mode, I don't think even our vulnerable natures together wouldn't survive all the heartache and all the years of. And it's like Zach Rogue started the interview, which you should totally make your Hudson watch review on YouTube. He said, the bench mode music seems to find us when we need it, not judge something we stumble upon. It's not radio fodder. And it judge. And going through the entire catalog, uh, judge gave me a deeper appreciation of nothing, only the man level of work that the last 40 years or some great reward which relates. Yeah, my birth. So, uh, more than 40. Uh, but also the. The friendship and the amount of music, whatever you meant to me before. And, of course we want to go into that. You mean to me now. [01:57:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:57:19] Speaker A: And what you always should have meant to me then the music. Because the music is the life blood of our friendship. Even more so than our shared vulnerability. Yeah, your statement, and I'm sure every ex of mine will echo this. I'm not an easy man to live. [01:57:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I was gonna say all my exes will tell you that. [01:58:00] Speaker A: Yeah, but I mean, like, getting personal. What you told me about your husband, how he'd have the one who finally got you, who finally was able to get down in the nitty gritty moments and love you and calm you down and not run away, not run for the hills, not judge you, not condemn you, but all the bad trauma, all the bad, bad behavior, whatever it is, it's like, that's true wob right there. And I'll go back to I was walking around New York and never let you down. Came on. And that opening verge reminded me, gave me a vision of what I hope you have with your husband. And if im watching copyrighted words, I would coded verbatim. Because at the end of the day, that's what I've always reached for you. Because that's what I've always wanted for myself. And that's what we should all, at the end of the day, get to. Because as one of my very good friends said to me in a different conversation, sex is cool, but getting down in the emotional, we with another person, that's the real shit. [02:00:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:00:29] Speaker A: And it's. It's so gratifying that we reached this point of where we are able to fully see and appreciate each other and ourselves. The amount of work we had to do both separate and together to get to this point. And even though I remember where we left off, when I read your message, I said, I remember. But that is the last thing on my mind. Because when we talked over the phone, it was like we had just talked the week prior on the phone, which, like I would judge at your wedding, even though I wasn't. It was that close again. And that's because of the vulnerability, that because of everything we went through together. But, and I cannot overstate. That's enough. It's because of the music bound art together in abbreviate of the shared vulnerability. We absolutely. [02:02:14] Speaker B: Yeah. It's like we're on Battlefield with Depeche mode behind us, you know, out in Santa Fe. Yeah, it's fantastic. [02:02:23] Speaker A: Well, my friend, I try not to get overly emotional, uh, to have favorite episodes. Kids, I'm the hoax, and I have to, uh, remain impartial. But this was a toad of thoughts episode again, to songs of faith and devotion for me, and I so hope that someday we get to siege the Hudson hug, because it's been far too long, and I get to meet your husband because he sounds like a remarkable, remarkable man, and I'm so glad you turned him on to the bench mode. If you weren't able to do that, I would be like, he like, um. [02:03:42] Speaker B: What is that? Sorry. I know we're trying to end it. I'm trying to think which one to leave you with. What his favorite. Um. I want to figure it out. My head, it's, um. I. Sometimes I cry. Yeah. Hear the pain, like, over and over. What's that one? I will bring you. It's off a delta machine. Oh, why can't heaven heaven? Good grief. I knew it was going to come to my mind. That's his favorite one. So I'll leave you with his favorite song. [02:04:10] Speaker A: It's heaven, so. And why that kid's favorite song? [02:04:19] Speaker B: He likes that. Dave Croon's on that one. He loves the slow, like, you know, emotionality to it. He loves that kind of almost like a blues song, you know what I mean? Gone wrong, gone a little electro and strange. And he says he just feels like. It's just very raw. And I think, again, if you go back to the church, Matt's not religious, but he was raised going to private, you know, christian school and with his parents being pastors. And I think there's kind of this relation to their. To the antithesis of God, right. Is dipesh mode kind of his number one fan and number one enemy, right. Is dipesh mode. And they kind of tier that line of, do they believe in him or don't they? And they've always loved walking that line. And I think he. I could guess if I could guess him. I think despite the fact that he says he lyrically, musically, and loves the way Dave uses his voice, I think. I think the lyrics have a little bit to do with it. Is that play on an experience he's had for life, right? [02:05:27] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, to end looking at the background and comprehension of that song, Dan said to me, heaven is one of the reasons why I still make music. Yeah, that's. That's very high praise coming after over 40 years. I so look forward to seeing you in person whenever that can happen. Please give my metta regards, meta loving kindness, regards to your family, and I'm so glad we reconnected after so many years. Thank you for being vulnerable and having the courage to reach out. It really made my entire week. [02:06:34] Speaker B: Thank you, Keith. It made mine, too. Thank you so much for coming. Having me on here was an honor. [02:06:49] Speaker A: You have been listening to disability disability empowerment. Now I would like to thank my guests, you, Oligna, and the Disability empowerment team that made this episode possible. More information about the podcast can be found at Disability empowermentnow.com, all on our social media adjacent empowerment. Now the podcast is available wherever you listen to. Podcasts are on the official website. Don't forget to rate, comment, and share the podcast. This episode of Disability Empowerment Knowledge copyrighted 2024.