Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Foreign.
Welcome to disability empowerment now season four. I'm your host, Keith Ravi de Ginsini. Today I'm talking to Chris Dboro. Chris, welcome to the show.
[00:00:29] Speaker B: Kate. Loving to be with you. Thank you very much for having me.
[00:00:34] Speaker A: So we go a ways back. We both met.
We met when we were both on the commission on disability issues for the city of.
Tell me what you're doing nowadays.
[00:00:59] Speaker B: Well, that's right. We. We met a long time ago. And basically I had to stop serving on the commission on disability issues because I got hired on as a staff member to one of the elected officials for the city of Tucson council. A gentleman by the name of council member Paul Cunningham might have heard of him. Yes.
His father served in the state senate here in Arizona, George Cunningham. And I believe he was also a vice president of the University of Arizona. And Paul has been serving the constituents of Ward 2 up here on the east side since 2011. So I came to work for him and I've been here ever since.
[00:01:52] Speaker A: So tell me about Disability Pride Tucson, how long it's been going on, your role in it and why it's important to the disability community in areas.
[00:02:18] Speaker B: Great question. Yeah. Disability Pride Day, Tucson. It started with an idea that I had.
I initially thought I was kicking the idea around in, you know, during the pandemic, but obviously nothing was going to happen. And then in 22, when, you know, life began to return to normal, I, I typed my ideas up and I articulated to. I articulated my plan for this event to the Ward 2 Chief of Staff. And then we had a conversation with the council member, Paul, and he loved the idea. And the reason why I came up with it was as a disabled staff member, I'm the only totally blind member of staff on payroll within the city of Tucson as a governmental entity.
[00:03:14] Speaker A: Wait, say that again.
[00:03:17] Speaker B: I'm the only totally blind employee on payroll as a staff member for the city of Tucson as a local government.
So one thing that came to me was we celebrate quite a lot of things here in Tucson, but there was nothing that celebrated or embraced the disabled community. So it's from that perspective and that idea that we obviously, you know, I started the conversations internally and I settled on December for the event. The reason being is obviously anybody who's been to Arizona in June, July or August realizes that it's. It's quite warm here in. In Southern Arizona.
Exactly. Just a little bit on the toasty side. And obviously, Disability Pride month is July, but I didn't want to put anything on in July just because it was Too darn hot.
And then doing some research, I identified December because December 3rd is the international Day of Persons with Disabilities, which is a day designated by the United Nations. And I saw that date and I thought that it could lend itself to Disability Pride and to help celebrate the International Day of Persons with Disabilities.
There was a reason, you know, there's a reason in December, which is why this then lined up. So we talked further with the council member, and he. He embraced it with all arms. He. He dove in feet first into the deep end. And we staged the first Disability Pride event on December 3rd of 2022, despite the weather. Literally 15 minutes before the event happened, a storm came through and the heavens opened. We had rain and the temperature fell through the floor, and it was freezing cold. But despite the weather, we had a reasonably good attendance.
So much. So we did it again last year, but we switched venues and moved to a much larger space, and we held it on December.
December.
I think it was December 3rd again this year, which was a Sunday this past year. And by the time we finished the event, we'd welcome over a thousand people through the door. So from year one to year two, we saw growth from about 350 people and being inside a small senior center up on the east side of Tucson to over a thousand people in a 90,000 square feet convention hall.
So we tripled our side and our venue size, and we tripled our capacity or the number of people that came through the door between year one and year two. So I was incredibly thrilled about that, and I'm incredibly encouraged that the community got behind this event so quickly and we were able to see such growth.
[00:06:55] Speaker A: Yeah, it's quite something to triple your audience in judge a few years of putting on the event.
Did you take not inspiration, but ideas from other Disability Pride events around the country? Did you talk to other organizers? What words. The origin story going more into depth about putting on the third Disability Pride event in Tucson and how has it evolved into its third or fourth year?
[00:07:59] Speaker B: Great question.
I'm gonna. I'm gonna answer really honestly now. I didn't seek any inspiration from any. Any of the other events around the country. In fact, to be quite honest, it will demonstrate to you how ignorant I was. I wasn't really aware of too many other Pride events for the disability community around the country going into year one. So year one was literally engaging with the Commission on Disability Issues, which you and I once served and their current membership, and then engaging with other nonprofits and groups around town that serve people with disabilities, and that was literally how year one happened. I didn't really engage with anybody as far as other Pride events.
And it was just, literally, I went into it with the idea that we needed to. And it is incredibly important to highlight the immense skills, talent and expertise that exist within the disabled community. But very often gets seen because the platform doesn't really exist. It's not a level. It's not a level playing field.
So I went into it with that in mind. And when it came together, it was literally a case of, you know, what, what, what should go into this. Adaptive sports. We got that some resource tables from nonprofits. Resources are important. We had that. We then had live performances from disabled performers, as well as spoken word poetry recitals and, you know, storytelling, people sharing.
And it was, you know, it. That's. It just came together that way. And it wasn't until after I closed the book on the first event and started to think about the next event in year two, that's when I did some. I actually spent a lot of time doing more research and I did actually connect with the folks who staged the first Disability Pride celebration up in Chicago in Illinois. I connected with them, I think it was around May time of last year, to find out what they were doing, how they did it and stuff. And it was an interesting conversation. I'm glad I had it. There are aspects of their event which I think works very well in a large city like Chicago.
I'm not sure one of those aspects, which is a Disability Pride parade. I'm not sure how that parade would fit into the city of Tucson as a place because we're not really a parade type town.
[00:11:11] Speaker A: No, but again.
[00:11:14] Speaker B: Well, city. Exactly. But we, we, we. We don't do that.
[00:11:21] Speaker A: No, I said no kidding.
[00:11:25] Speaker B: Oh, no kidding. Yeah.
[00:11:28] Speaker A: Me. When we have big events like the Tucson Meet Yourself or the Day of the Dead parade.
I mean, throwing the gym show and the book festival every year, I'm surprised we can do that like clockwork. I mean, say what you want. We're not New York City. We're not Washington, D.C. we're not, heck, even Chicago, Illinois, some places are more built for parade.
And Tucson, it's not. I don't even think Phoenix is.
Apologies to any Phoenix legends who might disagree with that. But yeah, no, I mean, that's really keen to be aware of that. Yeah, we don't have Central park here. Builds not too many marathons that I know of.
And so. Yeah, go on.
[00:13:03] Speaker B: No, you're at the end. And you're absolutely right. And you know, it's It's a case of understanding what other cities do and you know, basically trying to, you know, frame it for, you know, Tucson and the disability community here in town to make it uniquely Tucson.
And I found that when we went into year two for last year because we moved to a much bigger space because I'd already worked out or going into year one, even before the event had happened, I was turning people away as far as resource tables and stuff. We'd run out of space. So I knew we were going to have to take it to a larger venue, which is why we went down to the exhibition hall at the convention center, which is 90,000 square feet to.
[00:14:00] Speaker A: Be honest, speaking as a gender.
Last year's event you did make use of all of that space, all the reed swords tables, the main stage, you had games, you had wheelchair and motorized scooter textures and that was thrilling. And that place was packed for the majority of the time. Certainly I would when I was there. It was really great to see again as a first time attendee.
There wasn't a lot of freed spades or unoccupied area of room in that big vineyard. So I mean, yeah, that would agree success.
[00:15:32] Speaker B: I appreciate those comments and that feedback. Thank you, Keith. I mean I, I was thrilled. We had a very large, you know, resource fair. We had beautiful stage set up, we had professional sound, we had a bar, we had all the interactive stuff that was great. But one thing that left a mark on me as I left that building after a very long day going home with the family afterwards, I didn't feel the atmosphere there like I felt the atmosphere at the first year's event. Because the exhibition space at the conventional center is so long, 90,000 square feet. It's difficult to make 90,000 square feet feel intimate and cozy.
And I, I felt in that space we were able to fill it with stuff.
But it then took away the uniqueness and the intimacy and cozy feeling that we had in year one in a smaller space.
[00:16:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean I can see that suddenly it didn't feel as intimate as he could have been. But I will go back to what I would just saying for that large of spades, you guys made remarkable use of it. Like I remember Judge walking around marveling at how much, how many people, how many resources and it nothing felt short changed or nothing felt cramped, nothing felt too big.
And I mean I know what you're saying about the event not feeling as intimate as it could be, but that large of venue.
There would no really blank spot or plates on occupied and so, and so I hope that encourages you in future events going if you ever go back to a bigger size venue, that you do have enough of a community in a community outreach. And certainly the disability community itself was very well represented there. And so I think merging year one and year two and whatever you do in a few months in year three, going into year four and year five, you want to strike that balance about finding a happy medium because.
And that will.
That how large you went will even get me more sight or more pumped for this year. Because from everything you've told me, you're trying to shift back into the intimacy of year one. Let's do that. And then let's compare year one, year two and year three and try to do a more balanced approach for year four and year five and even beyond that. Because not every event, not every group, not every community can operate or can fill both types of venues and have people. You were mentioning that you had to turn away resources in the third year. You definitely had a lot more research last year. And now you're going back to year one. I mean, drugs.
Having the exorbitant variety and diversities of resources and companies and organizations that want to be represented at the event because they care about the event and the community.
Not every resource fair is lucky enough to have so many resources and companies and communities actually care about the event there.
[00:21:57] Speaker B: Yeah. And you're absolutely right. And I think, I think going into year three coming up on December 7th, we were unable to get back into the exhibition space at the convention center because it was already booked.
So knowing that it was booked, I had to start the planning of this event a heck of a lot earlier than I would usually do because I needed to find a venue.
[00:22:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:33] Speaker B: And as great as Tucson, Arizona is, and I love living here, one thing which is a real thorn in its side is that there is a lack of accessible event space within the city. A distinct lack of accessible event space I spent with members, with some members of my planning committee. I spent about six to eight weeks trying to identify and tour potential venues for this year. And even though we found some that we liked, they weren't accessible. I can't put on an event for people to celebrate the disabled community if the disabled community can't even get into the venue. So we. Yeah, it was a real challenge finding an event space this year. And what we've had to do is go back to the senior center where we held it in year one. We've got to go back there this year because of the exhibition hall at the convention center wasn't available and there is a distinct lack of accessible venues in town.
[00:23:50] Speaker A: Have you already thinking about year four, year five, year six? Have you already either booked or talked to the convention center about pre booking them? Because if they are already booked that far in advance and you hopefully you engage them in this multi year book team.
I mean I don't know what company or organization would turn that down to have a multiple year event already booked slated money. You can count on a event that draws over a thousand people in judge its second or third year. And I mean it seems too much like a win, win, win, win for any organization or event space to turn that down.
[00:25:28] Speaker B: No, absolutely. And those conversations begin to happen. We're talking to the TCC about some other stuff as well.
We are working closely with the University of Arizona Adaptive athletics department.
We're working closely with them. They reached out to us, this office and a council member.
They are looking to attract the National Wheelchair Basketball association championships collegiate championships game almost like March Madness on wheels in the March of 2026. And we're talking to the convention center about hosting that and also taking the opportunity, if the university is successful in that bit of securing that tournament, we will then look to turn that event into a citywide celebration of not only sports but also a citywide celebration for the disabled community as well. Turn it into a real.
[00:26:39] Speaker A: Say again what the sport.
[00:26:43] Speaker B: Wheelchair basketball.
Okay, so.
But to your point. Yeah. Well I'm, I'm already having conversations with the convention center about multi year booking Judge.
[00:27:00] Speaker A: If you can say look we're interested in holding the next three events here, then that's three years of guaranteed income that they are anyone can legally bank on. And it's all about finding that balance.
[00:27:32] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:27:33] Speaker A: Intimacy by the spades. Because you don't want to turn people away or so many people away that they lose interest in the event itself. And I think that's something. Of course I was aware of the planning for last year, but that didn't seem like it happened so much in the last year. I mean I keep coming back to this point.
We literally filled up that entire space without very few problems that I could see from a attendance point of view. And then you had all you had, you had demonstrations, you had games for kids, you had families there, you had a ball.
I mean that's very unusual for events for any event, educational or otherwise. And I mean you had it all. And judge stepping through the front door was engaging enough to see. Wow, the community really showed up for it.
[00:29:25] Speaker B: Did it really did.
[00:29:27] Speaker A: There's a larger community than I think even I was aware of. And I mean, had we held that when we were back on the convention, I think it would have boosted morale a lot more. I. I can't really see any downsides or any downside to walking into a event and seeing it fledge and filling the energy, it was palpable. It wouldn't edge palpable and let's say a Comic Con different type of event clearly. But you, you by year eight, year ten, if not sooner, I think we could get there and for a re short there in a educational spades. Spades for poetry, creative arts. I mean that's all incredible to just imagine. And I'm just talking of the cup here right now, but gone.
[00:31:11] Speaker B: Well, no, it's, it's interesting because you're talking about, you know, attracting families and you know, older people and you know, younger kids and stuff.
One of the things I'm immensely proud of is not only what we've done and continue to do with Disability Pride Day Tucson, it's also what we're beginning to do in the wider community as well.
Because thanks to our community partners and the council member, Paul Cunningham, who was a middle school teacher, gym teacher with our community partners, we were able to trial adaptive sports within PE within the main school district here in Tucson.
And that went so well that the last school year that program served and touched over 5,000 kids in the school district who were exposed to a week of adaptive sports within PE.
And what that will do is in 15, 20 years time when those kids are grown up and they're, you know, adults, their idea and their attitude towards disability may be far more accepting than we see now because they were exposed to adaptive sports within PE and that program, as I say the. The council member was able to get it into the school that he was teaching at. And off the back of that, we rolled it out through the school district. We've also wrote an ARPA grant that Paul was council member was very happy to do to support that program. And I think with the funding, with the ARPA grant and some other bits of funding as well, that program is likely to continue in schools for another four or five years, which is, it's. So it's gonna be a major societal change and impact further down the line.
[00:33:38] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. And so talk to me about pitching this idea that had never been done before in Tucson's history, to my knowledge, to the council member, the councilman, Paul Cunningham.
And of course we know he was receptive I mean, obviously, take it back to the elevator pitch you used to really get him engaged in. On board.
[00:34:31] Speaker B: What, for Disability Pride Day? Yeah.
[00:34:34] Speaker A: Yeah, it's.
[00:34:36] Speaker B: Yeah. That's interesting because as I say, I had a. Initially, you know, type something up, which I articulated to our chief of staff and then when we took it to the council member, again, articulated it. And the council member has always been very supportive, certainly of me.
As I mentioned earlier, I'm the only totally blind staff member on a payroll of over 5,000 people. And he's always been very supportive. But it's really over the past probably three years that it's gone from support to Paul actually jumping feet first and turning into a total passionate advocate. So when I initially pitched the idea, he's like, okay, he was on board, but I don't think it really registered with him as to what it was going to be like, but he was on board. And then when he came to the event, the first event on December 3rd of 22nd, he'll tell you, as he has told me, it changed his life.
It changed his life to be in an area that was predominantly filled with people with disabilities of all types of disabilities, and seeing everybody just living their life despite the various challenges that we face.
He also. Because he loves to play basketball.
[00:36:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:15] Speaker B: He also ended up sitting in one of the sports chairs and playing wheelchair basketball. And we couldn't. Once he got in that chair, we couldn't get him out of it. He was having a blast.
He had an absolute blast.
But being able to take him into that event, surround him with disabled community members, get him involved in the wheelchair adaptive sports, and see and see and experience everything else that happened in year one.
As I said to you, he's told me it has changed his life and it has now turned him into the only council member on the council within the city of Tucson that actively advocates for policy changes internally and externally to improve quality of life for people with disabilities. He is the only council member who actively pursues advocacy for the disabled community. And that is because, although reluctant, not reluctant, but, you know, he went, yeah, okay, to yes, for the first Disability Pride Day. But then after experiencing it, it's changed him completely. And disabled people here within the city as they have a very, very, very strong and loyal advocate for them, fighting on their behalf on the city council. And that's Paul Cunningham.
[00:37:57] Speaker A: So how did you feel to be the only completely blind paid staff member in the city of over 5,000 employees?
[00:38:24] Speaker B: To be honest with you, I mean, yeah, it's great to be Number one. To be the first one in. That's great. Fantastic.
[00:38:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:38:32] Speaker B: But I'll be honest with you, it's been very, very challenging because if you're one fish, if you're that one person, you are. When you're already a minority.
[00:38:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:38:47] Speaker B: And you then are 1 out of 5,000.
Getting the message across that things aren't accessible, things don't work, blah, blah, blah.
[00:38:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:00] Speaker B: Can be a real. It's. It's been an exhausting battle for as long as I've been here. But what I can say is because of Paul being such an advocate now and being so supportive, and because of the internal battle that I've been on after joining the payroll, we are now making progress. I presented to the city manager's office a 31 point plan on disability policy and improvements both internally within the organization and externally for quality of life changes. And that plan is being reviewed. The city manager that we now have is very much listening and the city manager's office has actually assigned a project manager to basically look at my document, look at the policy goals and objectives, with a view to being able to project, manage and deliver on some of those. And again, it will make a difference internally for other disabled staff members. Not. This isn't about me being blind.
It's about the fact that there are very few people on payroll who identify as a person with a disability. And that needs to change. And we need.
And as an organization, we need to change how we do things to ensure that if someone does come along who is a qualified candidate for a position, we are able to not only accommodate them under the ADA and the typical accommodation term, but we need to have cultural competency on how we deal and how we interact with people with disabilities internally. Because I can tell you from personal experience, there are a lot of people in this organization that have absolutely no idea how to interact with a blind person. I can walk into a room and you can almost feel the air being sucked out of it. Oh, my God, that's a blind guy. What do I do? And then, then they see because I, I also, I. I have some hearing loss. So I, I wear hearing aids as well. And then they say, I've got hearing aids. And like, oh my God, he's fine. And he's also got hearing. Like, no, what are we gonna do? People had no idea. So this policy document will start to address how we interact with, you know, internal clients as well as, you know, external constituents. But what it's also going to do is look at ways that the organization can Bring the residents of city of the city of Tucson along on that road and along on that journey. Just simple things to start with, like the organization officially recognizing Disability Pride month in July. Let's get out there. Let's.
Let's officially recognize it. Let's hoist the Disability Pride flag over City Institute building throughout July. It's simple stuff, but this is the stuff that we need to start doing. And this is part of what's in my policy document which we will soon be working. Just simple ways to recognize disabled. The disabled community, but at the same time make the community at large aware of what's going on for people with disabilities as well.
[00:43:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean old. That sounds amazing.
I wish I could say I'm shocked by the air shock out of the room.
I'm not.
I am and I'm not at the same time, which doesn't make sense until you actually look at the history and live life of a advocate that even a city or state that regardless of its politics, it's shifting, but it's not shifting.
[00:44:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I totally. Yeah, I agree with you on that one.
[00:44:11] Speaker A: Like the other side of the country still the same thing. You can be in a totally different environment, a totally different city structure and you'd still faced and slapped metaphorically with all kinds of inaccessibility.
And it's like it's 2024, it's almost 2025. Why are we still having to deal with that? It's like we're not asking for much. In fact, we're not asking for anything outrageous at all in terms of accessibility.
It's like I saw TED talk given by this blind advocate in.
He made a very articulate point that if you design or redesign the world with blindness in mind, you improve it for everyone.
I. I mean, and it's judge.
But that's always struck with me that if you improve accessibility as a whole and make it the norm, you're going to attract more visitors, more people who will want to live here, more people will want to settle down, help have families in acceptable homes. Imagine that.
That's a big thing.
It's just amazing to me.
[00:46:33] Speaker B: Yeah, you're absolutely right. And I think this is something. Again, it's taken a long time, but I think we're beginning to get traction. Is if you keep accessibility in the forefront on your mind when you build websites, when you build cell phone apps with your documentation, when you build stuff even in the physical environment, if you keep that in your mind at the planning stage and you bake it in, it's no big deal. It's not, it's not more expensive. It's just part of the design process. And what tends to happen is people go ahead and design all this stuff and it's like, well, it's not accessible. Then they got to go back and try and fix it. It's like baking a cake and going, ah, well, that cake didn't work because I didn't have that. Well, I've got to put that back in and then put it in and see if I can get the cake to work. No, it's so difficult to go backwards to fix your mistake.
[00:47:40] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:47:41] Speaker B: You've got to build it in at the beginning.
[00:47:43] Speaker A: Yep. Yeah. And a lot of people either don't know that, don't believe it, or can't comprehend that.
The reason why, I think one of the most prominent reasons why people think it's so expensive to become more accessible is you're having to update infrastructure, business and the lines who are already set up. And there are some buildings like some theaters in New York or even across the pond.
So you'd say. Or so they'd say that can't be updated, can be made accessible and there. And once you get into historic or designations and landmarks, you can do that.
[00:49:18] Speaker B: But it's, it's, it's the case you talk about, you know, historic designation, and that's something else that we're looking at because it's the case of, you know, here in Tucson, for those watching and listening, we have part of our downtown core, which is, you know, a historic preservation zone.
[00:49:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:49:39] Speaker B: Those buildings, by virtue of their age and not accessible. I get that. But there are tax credits from the federal government that business owners can draw on. Even if it's a case of taking, you know, adding a ramp for a wheelchair user or someone with a mobility device, there are tax credits that will support this.
[00:50:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:50:10] Speaker B: So one of the things we want to do is drive a change downtown here in Tucson.
The program that we, we want to start is called Good Business.
Great, Great access. Good access, Great business.
And what we want to try and do is educate the business owners, especially, you know, those in historic designated buildings, about tax credits from the federal government that can help. Because if they can, if all they do is switch out, say, an old ramp that isn't compliant and put in a new one, you've all of a sudden shown a willingness to be accessible. Now, it may well be someone gets in and it could still be a challenge. I get that. But at least try, at least, at least start to make Some of these modifications, especially when there's money from the federal government that can help with these programs, and that's something that we want to help drive, is a change to some of the businesses downtown as well. Because some of those businesses, people with people who are wheelchair users or those who may use mobility devices, there are some organizations downtown, they'll never get in. They can't get in. It's impossible for people with mobility devices and wheelchairs to actually get into some of those organizations. It's wrong. It's wrong. And the fact that there is money that's being left on the table, people need to go out there and claim it. And people need to show their willingness to offer up inclusion. Because I always say inclusion is a right and it's not a privilege. Yeah, it's not a privilege.
[00:52:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah. And that's another thing that people, either by ignorance or arrogance or a bit about people, view accessibility as a privilege and not a right. Or they can. And it's the same with health care and affordable housing, and then you have accessible housing versus inaccessible housing.
Living your life and having your basic needs met should not be a privilege. In a inclusive or a more inclusive society that hopefully we're all striving to become more and more year after year, it should not be a privilege at all. It should be right.
The most concrete example of the thing that we often overlook all the time is Cub cards.
Cub cards that were invented for mothers, people rolling and wheeling their babies.
And it's like. But no one questions Cub cuts now. Like, no one questions whether or not seat belts are a good idea. Oh, lids. I hope they don't. I really hope they don't. But it's like, gods are judge standard, or they should be nowadays.
[00:54:48] Speaker B: You're totally right. And it's interesting.
I met a person last week who was very vocal about the fact that across worlds, across walks, as you approach the crosswalk, you've obviously got the raised surface shortly before you step off. So people who are blind and visually impaired know that they're close to the end. And this individual actually turned around and said that they thought that they were unsightly and horrible and that they hoped we wouldn't, as an organization, be continuing to put those things down on our construction projects.
And I did actually point out to this individual that, you know why they're there. And that from my perspective as a blind pedestrian, there have been some occasions over the years in which had they have not been there, I'd have ended up out in the traffic and in Front of a car.
But it's just a shame that that perception is still out there. And it's just a shame that we have to fight as disabled community members so hard.
[00:56:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:56:10] Speaker B: To get our points listened to or even validated.
[00:56:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. It. It is unsightly.
[00:56:25] Speaker B: Say again?
[00:56:27] Speaker A: Unsightly.
What Expecting each sidewalk to be. Are you.
It's like, wow, that. That's really something.
Wow. Okay.
[00:57:00] Speaker B: And. And. And. But this. This goes back to something that we touched on a little earlier about the adaptive sports MP lessons within the school district, because hopefully, comments that I just shared about the sidewalk from an individual who is an older individual, hopefully those comments will start to die out because we're getting them early in school and forming their attitudes and opinions in a positive way. So, again, hopefully, in 15, 20 years time and further on, we'll then start to see a real shift in society and perception and attitudes such as the one that I just, you know, illustrated a few moments ago.
[00:57:55] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it's like when I walk inside, walk of Gods, I can see.
But there is no point that I expect a sidewalk or cub card or whatever to be anywhere close to a fancy, schmancy red carpet that you see at a. A binge odella. It's like instant sidewalk. It's a cub cut. If anything, Tucson doesn't have enough sidewalks, all cub cuts. It has too many potholes and makeshift speed bumps or barriers.
It's like, not enough sidewalks, not enough cub cards. It's like. And I can tell you from a person who can ride now, see, sidewalks and cub cuts are not appealing to look at, but they're not made to be that way. Like, if I see a sidewalk tricked out.
Yeah, tricked out. I'm gonna take notice of it because it's tricked out for a few seconds or maybe a minute or two, and then I'm gonna wonder, why is it tripped out? Why is it color board?
And I'm not just talking about chalk or hopscotch or whatever.
I mean, it's not like.
No, no, it's old sidewalks.
And cub cards are painted the same way I should because they blend in with the environment.
I mean, that's their puppet. You expect them to just not look appealing because that's not their job, to look appealing. Their job is to be there and to actually walk. No one touches a.
What are those things called? To call, to trigger the quads, walk the green. Like, no one is pressing any of those buttons and thinking, I hope I hear some life of.
I hope I hear a friendly voice. Now you're prancing it to designate a desired function. You don't want to hear life coaches from a machine. You wanted to signal cards that could kill you to stop so you can cross the street and get to where you're going.
It's like endosa unsightly, but they match all of the other unsightly boxes I know.
[01:02:48] Speaker B: And it still function.
[01:02:52] Speaker A: I mean, I'm sorry I got a little bit upset and went on a tangent, but it's like I just can't understand how people want things to be, to work.
And I mean, if you're not going to give it another thought while you're out and about, why, why?
[01:03:33] Speaker B: I, I think, I think there's a growing sense, you know, in, in today's day and age, it. And this has got nothing to do with politics or anything like that, but I think in today's day and age and the way society has changed and continues to change, we. As society changes, we move further, further, further and further away from being able to understand and empathize with other people that may not fit the same construct as us.
[01:04:11] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:04:12] Speaker B: And I always feel that it would be fascinating if one morning people woke up and the world was designed for people with disabilities and people with disabilities were the able bodied and the able bodied were seen as being disabled. And I would love to see the reaction from those people who were told, hold on, I know it's a basic human right of yours, but you must comply with what I think and say.
[01:04:52] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, nobody would.
[01:04:55] Speaker B: Yeah, they wouldn't. Nobody would tolerate that. But that is what we, as people who are disabled are forced to deal with.
[01:05:05] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it, it's a battle. It's stunning.
We could talk for hours and hours, my friend, but wrapping up what I hope it's the thirds of several episodes we do together.
And I hope, you know, you're always welcome back on the program in case there are any aspiring city planners, politicians, advocates that want to go in to civil servants, even at the city level, what would be some recommendations on some advice you will give them?
[01:06:08] Speaker B: Be patient.
Be really patient because you're dealing with a bureaucracy and everything that goes with that.
You also have to be sure to always celebrate every single win, regardless of how small and insignificant it may feel it's to win and celebrate it. And I think, most importantly, make sure, you know, strike up and have strong relationships with the people in senior leadership at departmental level, at director level, and obviously all the way up to city manager and mayor's office. Because as we all know, it doesn't matter what line of work you're in, what you're trying to achieve.
If you have good relationships with people, that's half the battle.
[01:07:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:07:09] Speaker B: So you've always got to make sure that you have those relationships, but you've also got to be really, really patient. And as I also said, be sure to embrace those small wins because it may feel as though that is taking a really, really long time to drive the ball down the field and get in, into the opponent's end zone. And it may feel as though that you started out on your own one lot, one yard line, and you're only picking up first downs because you run in the ball and making short yardage games. But celebrate it, take stock of where you are, and eventually, regardless of how small those wins are, you will move the ball down the field, you will get it in the opponent's end zone, and it will be worth it. But you have to always remind yourself of that and you also have to remind yourself as to why you're doing it.
I, I get very frustrated with the advocacy work that I do inside of this office and within the city, this office, under council member Paul Cunningham's guidance. I am incredibly fortunate to have his support and the support of my fantastic co workers around me. But it's the battle that exists at a higher level. You've got to really, really dig in and just keep reminding yourself why you're doing it. As I said, as I said you earlier, we're getting close. We are now, after nearly eight years, making progress. And it's now it's like, you know what, it's great. Whereas the seven and a half years that have led up to this, it has been such a roller coaster and it has been such a struggle. I wanted to give up. But dig in, keep strong and keep going. Because ultimately, at the end of the day, it's not about you or me. It's about making life better for people with disabilities that may follow us. And it's also about educating people around us to hopefully make a work environment and living environment a little nicer and a little better just by advocating and educating. And you just got to keep, you just got to keep positive and you've got to keep, dig deep and keep going.
[01:09:37] Speaker A: So I like to think. Very well said, my friend. I like to think that both advocates with disabilities and those who have yet to discover are embrace their own disabilities legends and watch program.
I'm not naive enough to think that either group or groups within those groups take away the same things from Every episode. So, as my guest, what do you hope that advocates with disabilities take away from this episode? And what do you hope that those who have yet to discover our embrace their own disabilities take away from the.
[01:10:45] Speaker B: Great question. I'm going to answer the second part of that question. First, to people who have yet to fully embrace or even acknowledge or even embrace to a lesser extent, their own disability, I get it.
I understand why sometimes it's easier to live in denial than acceptance.
But it's not until you fully embrace and accept that and accept your disability as part of you that you will truly be free.
Because it's the case of when you fully. I mean, I didn't expect to lose my eyesight and have to use hearing aids, but guess what? It's happened. This is now me.
I haven't changed any from what I was before I lost my sight and before I needed hearing aids. I'm still the same person. I'm still me.
You are still you. Even with a disability, the essence of you remains the same.
But to embrace your disability is to basically embrace you as you are now and to accept you. And until you can accept yourself and your disability, you will struggle to have anybody else around you. Accept it because you have to get comfortable with yourself.
And until you're comfortable with yourself, then no, you, you, no one's going to become. You've got to be comfortable with yourself. And as I said, it will really, it's very liberating when you get to that stage in which is like, no, this is me and I'm still me. And I may be missing something or my eyes don't work, but so what? I can keep going. I can still earn, I can still live, I can still be participate in life.
That's the most important thing. And from somebody who just turned 50 a couple of months ago, life goes incredibly quick. Don't sit around, embrace it. Embrace all of you and live and love and love to learn life. Because it will be over before you know it. And I'd rather go to my grave knowing that I embraced my life and I had a full life than lay there before my final breath and go, oh, damn, you have to embrace it. So that's what I'd say to those that don't embrace their disability or a little bit in denial. And as far as your first point, part of your question, I think it's very important that anybody listening to this episode realizes, you know what? Being an advocate is hard work.
It is hard work.
But the disabled community that you live in and that you are part of wherever you are. Listening to this, this on and watching this needs you to be an advocate. Because disabled people, we are a marginalized minority population and unless we advocate and speak loudly and stand up and educate and push and educate, nothing will change. You won't change people's attitudes, you won't change the way people view you. You won't help form somebody's perception. You won't change someone's negative perception and turn it into a positive. So you have got to speak up. You've got to learn to push back. You've got to learn to articulate and educate and you know, be proud of who you are. Be proud of what you accomplish.
What you accomplish is as important as anybody else. This is as important as anybody else. Doesn't matter if you're able bodied or disabled, what you do is as important as everybody else. Be proud, stand up, shout about it, push back, educate others and be an example to others around you. And that will begin. Even if you change one person's perception of disability, you won.
And that's what, that's what being an advocate is about.
[01:15:30] Speaker A: Thank you my friend. Tell me again when disability Pride to John is happening and where it did happening.
[01:15:44] Speaker B: Thank you Keith. I appreciate giving me the opportunity for a shameless plug. It is December 7, Saturday, December 7, 2024 at the Morris K. Udall Senior center at Udall park up on the east side here in Tucson. And it's running from 11am to 5pm we got a pack program if you want to go to the website disabilitypridetoson. Check it out. We've got an overview of the event. We're finalizing our live performances.
We've got a panel discussion from a former member of the Arizona State Legislature who is a wheelchair user. She's giving our keynote address. We've got a panel, we've got entertainment, we've got dance parties, we've got, we've got para. Para athletes are going to be in the house. We've got an art exhibition featuring artwork by all disabled artists.
We've got a ton going on. We've got adaptive sports again in the gym. So come on down. 11am to 5pm at the senior center at Utel park on Tucson's east side or visit disabilitypridetucan.com thank you my friend.
[01:17:08] Speaker A: I will see you very soon and you can always feel free to come back on this show. We have so much more we could talk about but I'll leave it there. Happy belated birthday my friend and take.
[01:17:29] Speaker B: Care I really appreciate. It was great to be with you. Thank you Keith.
[01:17:43] Speaker A: You have been listening to Disability Empowerment Now. I would like to thank my guards.
You are legendary and the Disability Empowerment team that made this episode possible.
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