[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Welcome to disability empowerment now Season 4 Bonus Episode number six, I believe. I don't know at this point.
I'm your host, Keith Mevide Ginsini, and. And I'm back with my good friend Alaina Malad, and we're recording the third part of our the spiritual recovery of Depeche Mode. Elena, welcome back to the show.
[00:00:52] Speaker B: Oh, thanks for having me over and over again. I appreciate it.
[00:00:56] Speaker A: Yes.
So I really fig down the ending of the lads episode where I pulled a dad's one on you and claimed that my producer was calling me and that we needed to cut right there.
[00:01:24] Speaker B: Yeah, and I fell for it.
[00:01:26] Speaker A: Me, I would.
That convincing.
Nothing of the sort happened. I made that up to go along with a comment you had made just a few minutes earlier.
I enjoyed that fake out.
I really did. I think it added enough suspense at the end of the last episode that we were going to have to go into overtime.
This is part three of our series on the spiritual recovery of the patch mode. And we're finally at their most recent album. Would you like to start us off?
[00:02:34] Speaker B: Yes.
So we have to backpedal to Delta Machine. One song. One song. We missed it.
[00:02:41] Speaker A: Your most favorite album.
[00:02:44] Speaker B: Yeah, my favorite album with some of my favorite songs.
Ironically, not my favorite album. But seriously, there's some, like, bangers on that one, so should be higher. We skipped over and I. I think I put it on the list, and somehow we just got lost in our talk. And then I think it fell off the list when I gave a final list, but should be higher.
He uses a term that implies he's talking to a female. However, there's also a lot of indication that this could be a drug. Drugs are often referred to as females, and there is a sense in the song with lyrics.
[00:03:22] Speaker A: What?
[00:03:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:25] Speaker A: Huh? What?
[00:03:26] Speaker B: You've never heard of drugs being referred to as.
[00:03:28] Speaker A: No, no.
[00:03:29] Speaker B: I like Molly.
[00:03:31] Speaker A: Okay. Well, I mean, Molly, I get.
[00:03:35] Speaker B: Or, like, they call heroin like, a she. She grabs you, but, you know, like, they've referred to her as like, a crow. Like, like, you know, taking you under her wings and killing you.
No. You've never heard of this? Lucy in the sky with Diamonds? None of that.
[00:03:49] Speaker A: Well, yeah, I mean, that should be.
Yeah, I mean. Well, continue. Go on.
[00:03:58] Speaker B: Am I blowing your mind with the meaning of this song?
[00:04:01] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:04:01] Speaker B: Okay, gotcha. All right. I was, like, finding out a side that drugs are often referred to as women or, like, a bitch. Right. Like, it's.
Yeah. I'm glad I'm blowing your mind with this song. So there's a few ways you could see this song. One is, it's about a relationship, like, romantically, like. And Depeche Met has made it very clear they're heterosexuals. There never seems to be any indicator that there is men, you know, or, like, confusion or not confusion, that's the wrong word to say. They're not curious. You know what I mean? That's the word I meant to say, curious. They're not curious. They very much have indicated they are heterosexual men who like girls and talk about girls. And you and I saw that in some of their documents, commentaries. I'm giggling like little boys at, you know, 30, being like, we talk about chicks, religion and politics. They're like, what else is there?
But I also think should be higher.
Because we often dismiss that God is not always seen as a male anymore. We in the modern society have accepted she could be a, you know, could be a female power.
And there is a lyric that says, your arms are infected. It's holding the truth, which to some indication suggests heroin, right? Like, Dave had a heroin addiction previously. But then he also says, stop while you're crying. This one you'll lose. And you should be higher, you know, now take it higher. And then he sings another lyric that says, it's like your book. It holds the truth, but stop while you're lying.
And so I really think when he talks about a book, while some of us could just say, it's the pages of our book, right? It's the story of our life, I also think he could be referring to the Bible or a higher power where we often. The Torah, right? Or other. I'm not. Forgive me, audience. I'm not familiar with every book in. In all the religions, but like the Book of Mormon, the Torah, the Bible.
I really think when he's saying, you should be higher, I'll take you higher and don't be afraid.
He sings, you just have to pray.
And so I really think, like, while that could indicate a drug user trying to get through the throes of a drug addiction, right? Is like, you kind of have to, you know, pray, like, hang on tight, right?
I also think it could be an ominous God, right? And he says, your lies are more attractive than the truth.
Love is all you need, which is often a religious thing. And God always says that if you just accept my love, I'll. I'll give you power, right? Especially in the Catholic faith, you know, I mean, there is a real ominous picture that there's like, you're not talking to Jesus. You're Going straight to God, right? Like, and you do that through going your priest, right? And so there's this ominous to God that you can't even reach God. You. You can't talk to Jesus and you can't reach God in the Catholic faith, right? And I don't know about other faiths, but, like, you know, whereas, like, Baptists and stuff and more like American religions, right. Version of Christianity has been more direct relation to either one, right? You can talk to God or Jesus. They're your homies. But, like, in a lot of original, when we go back to, like, not original, but when we go back to, like, medieval times, right, or the Crusades, you're talking about a God who is kind of a jerk. He's kind of scary, you know what I mean? And kills everybody in the Exodus over and over again and kind of holds a threat over us all the time. And I really feel like that song, with the way the music is and there's this, like, build up with the song, and it just starts getting, like, darker and deeper and crazier. Like, well, that could sound like the drug addiction. I also think it's a God, like, saying, you gotta trust me. You got to put. I know that's a huge description, but Should Be Higher is in, like, my top Depeche Mode songs. Like, despite the album not being my favorite, Soothe My Soul Slow and Should Be Higher are just mega jams. And Should Be Higher is my favorite on that one. I think it's just. It hits in a frighteningly ominous way that only Depeche Mode achieves without sounding too exotic, where it kind of hurts your ears, you know, it's melodic.
[00:08:27] Speaker A: So let's get into the most recent.
[00:08:31] Speaker B: Album, Memento Mori, also very religious and spiritual. Like both, it's very combined, probably the.
[00:08:45] Speaker A: Most religious and spiritual sense. Songs of faith and devotion, I think. So a concept album.
[00:09:00] Speaker B: Yes. Maybe as a concept, because I was gonna say, I feel like playing the Angel. We covered a lot on Playing the Angel.
[00:09:06] Speaker A: No, no. Ultra and Playing the Angel all sink deeply into that territory as well. But I think always viewed songs and Mentor Moy ads concept albums that really dive into both religion and spiritual matters, and they hold nothing back.
[00:09:46] Speaker B: Yeah. I would agree with you that Songs of Faith and Devotion does not veer the way some of their albums do. Like, a lot of their albums will still give you some reprieve from the subject matter and go to something else. So. You're absolutely right. Like, Playing the Angel hits towards some of the kind of, like, cosmic realm, you know? And like realm of humanity itself. And it. So is. It is.
[00:10:10] Speaker A: They would follow up and extremely talk about own Sounds of the Birds think.
[00:10:21] Speaker B: Was a kind of a mistake. But.
And then Ultra, you're right, has kind of a back and forth between spiritual awakening and recovery, drug recovery. And so you're right. It's. It's. Those albums don't strictly stick to the subject matter. With Songs of Faith and Devotion, there is no reprieve from the subject. It's song after song after song. You're absolutely right. And so I feel like Momento Mori is a really fascinating album.
It. It really borders on my favorite. We've talked about this. It's between that and Black Celebration for me. And I. I don't want to necessarily categorize one as better than the other. And I think any Depeche Mode fan struggles to choose their favorite because you'll be like. Like, for you, it's like songs of Faith and devotion. But the next minute you're texting me and you're like, ultra is hitting so hard this week. You know? And I'm like. And then I listen. I'm like, oh, my God, this album's incredible.
I think Memento Mori, I kind of want. I know you and I have debated on this. You're ready to hear more from them. And I'm kind of like, I'm cool if they close out.
I really am scared to hear anything after Memento Mori. If that tells fans what. How good this album is, go ahead.
[00:11:36] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I did say that I'm ready to heal more, particularly with the majority and the reflection and introspection of the two remaining members.
But I also agree with you if they go out on. On any album. And I think FL would have loved this album had he had Martin sent the demos just a few days or a week or two earlier, Andy would have been all over this album. And so if they want to tap it here, it's probably the most beautiful tribute and the greedy closure of a band's history as you can get.
[00:13:14] Speaker B: I was.
Yeah.
[00:13:17] Speaker A: But I think that Martin, even though he said he had really hard time writing songs, that he's really, you think, up to snuff.
And I think when Dave started help writing songs and when they started co writing together, they're in their early 60s.
[00:14:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:00] Speaker A: And I think the allure.
It's still there for them in terms of.
I think Dave's hips would have to both go.
They both say, okay, we have more than enough money. We'll set.
This is a great closer let's just do solo projects from now on or eps or whatever.
They would have to be in their late 60s to early to mid-70s to really be at a stopping point in terms of their rationale or family issues or whatever. And we hope that they don't have builds, but I think the intoxicating role of exploring Maw is still present there. So whether or not we. We want to hear.
[00:15:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:45] Speaker A: Like the only other podcast episode I've listened to was for this series and we'll talk about the next series we're going to do together.
I could not have imagined any of this when I interviewed you last year.
I thought one and done great but smart led.
[00:16:25] Speaker B: Yeah, that was a great episode, wasn't it?
[00:16:28] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And I'm trying to remember who the.
[00:16:34] Speaker B: Old Baymaid's Men and Will Arnett, Jason Bateman and Sean Hayes.
[00:16:43] Speaker A: Yeah. Sean Hayes is a massive, massive Depends fan and Martin made a interesting comment in that interview that leads when it was recorded.
A lot of the bands don't like their newer stuff.
[00:17:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:16] Speaker A: But I don't think even that would stop them from.
There's new stuff. Yeah, there's new stuff and they'll going to release it. Like the majority of this album with the co writer Martin wrote with outside of the band which he had never done before in his career. She thought that these songs were way too good for a side project.
They needed to be the patch mode.
[00:18:13] Speaker B: Songs and they were.
[00:18:15] Speaker A: I mean they were.
[00:18:17] Speaker B: We'll. We'll dig into the song so we don't keep the suspense from the audience.
I.
So let me. I'm gonna jump around on songs. I'm not going to go in order on this album.
I think Never Let Me Go.
I don't know how they're going to top that. I. I mean it's the second to last song comes before Speak to Me. So for fan, you know, audience listening, this album is very climatic. It's a very like. It grows throughout the album and it comes to the. Again a nice. I love when they do ominous. I love when the songs are strange and weird and kind of like haunting and yeah, Never Let Me Go is a stretch for them. It's.
They haven't really done a rock sound in a long time. At least since playing the angel or Ultra. I would even wager more Ultra. I think playing the angel is still very digital.
I. You haven't heard that screeching guitar in a long time. And it's in a way that they've never played before.
You could tell there was some extra writers on the album. And I think the writers are Depeche Mode fans. I mean, they legitimately knew what they were doing.
But the Never Let Me Go is not necessarily strictly religious. I think, again, that's a more crossover one, and it could certainly be in the next series. But I think we can dig deep into Memento Morion here as kind of a segue between both for. For the audience listening, and we'll kind of maybe not do momentum or in the next or just kind of mull over it, because I really think a lot of these songs are crossovers. But Never Let Me Go, I really think is either a relationship, again, a romantic relationship. He doesn't want to lose it. You know, he's on the high. But I also really think this can be a relationship with a higher power. You know what I mean? And I also think, like, should be higher. It could actually be God singing. You know what I mean? So as I was talking about on Should Be Higher, is it actually maybe the Omni presence speaking, not Depeche Mode? And I think it could be the same with Never Let Me Go, as this is not a personal perspective. This is somebody saying, or even him saying to God, never let me Go. I think there's this kind of dynamic that they're singing about, a power dynamic and the dependency they've gained. You don't need to feel a certain way. And so whether that's through another human, whether that's through a presence, or whether the presence themselves the same. I need you. You know what I mean? I. But the lyrics, like, watch our dreams unfold in color and underneath the moon will wander sounds a little romantic, but also, again, sounds like humans together, right? This collective of this vision, you know, of life. And it's why it's to this, like, snappy beat and the shrieking, screeching guitar that they've never done, I have no idea. But it's absolute brilliance. The ending gets so climatic with him just repeating it over and over again in the reverb on his voice. And Dave just has that ability to sound haunting, right? He has ability to transcend his voice throughout the song and just to kind of, like, shut off and then, like, hit speak to me.
It's. It's the most amazing ending to, like. It's the most amazing last two songs on any of their albums. Like, they've never ended an album any better than that. Or, like, said, I don't think any band in the world has ever created such an awesome two last songs.
[00:21:50] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, and that's why I compare it so deeply with Songs of Faith and Devotion, because they did that also on songs.
[00:22:13] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:22:15] Speaker A: And they carried that on with the tour they did for that album, the infamous Devotional tour, which we barely touched on.
[00:22:33] Speaker B: But it's a good crossover album. We'll be digging deep on the next part.
[00:22:37] Speaker A: Oh, yes.
And I mean, Memento Molly goes a lot of places that you will probably not expect them to go.
It's very cinematic.
[00:23:07] Speaker B: Yes album.
[00:23:09] Speaker A: And very, very haunting.
A lot of the songs could cross over. And it's a crossover album with songs. And even with Ultra, I mean, those three albums, yes, were made under the grind, under trauma, under Strads, under the darkest of times in the band's history.
[00:23:50] Speaker B: And.
[00:23:52] Speaker A: Their bloody brilliant.
The output, particularly the last two songs in each album.
Yeah, are very dramatic songs.
Oja and Memento Moy, they just close out all of those, altering in the most exquisite way possible.
[00:24:36] Speaker B: So leading into the epic ending.
Like I said, I do. I agree. All three albums have incredible endings.
So my favorite on this album is Always.
And on Memento Mori and Always comes Before Never Let Me Go, which has a departure from their normal sound. Again, what I love about Memento Mori is it sounds just like Depeche Mode and just different enough to be things they've never really fully done.
And there's almost this reggae beat in the beginning. It's this off beat and this kind of like rhythmic, slow, but with digital sounds. And then it kind of stays with a little bit that reggae beat, but except it sounds again like this digital edginess of like. It's almost like somebody shaking the music. It's like.
Like the whole time underneath. And it's again, Dave just becomes more and more ominous as the song goes on. It's like the reverbs enhanced more and his voice is echoing further and this sweeping sense at all the. You know, at the choruses are climatic. And you just picture. I've always pictured this like water. Like I said, it's cinematic. I picture this, like, water effect. If it was a music video, you know that it's like the fuzz on the TV screen from the 90s, you know what I mean? And then mixed with, like, water flowing through. And it's like you're just seeing them, like, kind of edgy, you know, as they're singing. It's like the effect is. And, like, you just picture. It's like they can't even, like, control it. Like maybe a tunnel, you know, it's. It's so sweeping sounding And I think the lyrics, as he says, it's always you. It's always you, and then there's you, and it's always you. I really think, again, can transcend that love and devotion of, like, you're the person, you're my. You know, everything.
It's always you in the end. But I also really think, again, we're talking about a relationship with God.
He says, my love, the world's upside down My love. You know, reality's cracked. I really don't think he's singing to a romantic partner. I think he's singing to God, or God is singing to them again. And there's this kind of back and forth discussion of when reality's cracked, when the world's upside down, when I'm, you know, feeling kind of lost. It's like, there's you, and then there's you, and then it's always you. And the way it's, like. It becomes hypnotic and sweeping and it's.
I don't know if there's any other way to describe that song other than people gotta go listen. And. And again. I love that, like, beat. They've never really done that before. Is this. I mean, they're good with the offbeats. I always. I've always wondered if Depeche Mode kind of invented that with the digital pop music. Because I. I don't recall their sound prior to them. You know what I mean? The. Like, the way they do these offbeat slams. But that song takes it to a whole new level of, like, slow, rhythmic reggae. Like, it's weird. And I just.
I think, like, again, if you're talking about the climax of an album, you know what I mean? There's this. It's like they're bringing you to the strangeness. You know what I mean? They're like, come on in. Like, it's omnipresent here, but we're doing it. And then it's like, never Let Me Go is this, like, grip. It's like this, like, drug grip on, like, cocaine. Like they shot some cocaine down, you know what I mean, and snorted it up and, like, took an upper at the same time and just were, like, you know, And. And I think, like, leading into always you is why am I drawing a blank? Oh, before we drown.
[00:28:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:22] Speaker B: Incredible. Not about God.
Definitely about love and romance. Yeah.
But I think if we're gushing over this album and the lead into these omnipresent relationships, whether it's through another human or through a spirit or kind of the transcendence of both Right. Which is kind of why I think what Depeche My specialty is is letting it kind of be like both meanings before we drown is sweet.
It's vulnerable.
It's made for Dave. I don't think. Yeah. Anybody else could have sang that song.
It's.
[00:29:00] Speaker A: I believe he wrote it.
[00:29:02] Speaker B: Did he? Oh, my God. I believe it. It's so sweet. Involved.
[00:29:08] Speaker A: Confirm that.
[00:29:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
For the audience. The lyrics he opens with. I've been thinking I could come back home.
And it's. It sets up the whole song is. You know, you have a couple who has lost their way together. They've fallen apart.
He says, how would that be? You and I alone.
All alone. And then. I love the beautiful lyrics at the chorus is, first we stand up and then we fall down.
We have to move forward before we drown. And it's. Yeah.
It's again, a very slow, rhythmic song for them.
I think the sound effects are perfectly placed.
The violins. They bring in the violins you and I have talked about that we love When Depeche Met as violins. And usually they're on Martin songs. And so it was very sweet to hear Dave get his chance with the orchestra behind him. Whether it's a synth orchestra or a real one, it still just sounded so sweet. And it matched the sweeping tones of the digital. Like, you know, it has, like, these little doo woppy sounds that kind of hit at these points. And it's like Depeche, Men's specialty is always filling in the breakdowns, you know, in the moment that a lot of bands, I think, struggle with. And songs can fall flat and they keep it dynamic when they're not singing. And again, the ending is like.
It gets bigger, it gets sweeping. And Martin's voice is always a great addition to give power to the song. And especially if it's kind of an emotional song. And so Martin just doing his. Whoa.
You know, it's just like. And is like. You know, it's like background vocals. And so it's like the way they layer the two of them at the end. It's like Dave's voice is always so soothing and hypnotic. And his baritone just like. I can't even hit it right. I'm gonna massacre the song. But he just keeps chanting, we drown. You know, nice and slow. And Martin. It's like they've layered him two, three times.
[00:31:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:12] Speaker B: Doing different lyrics. You know, he's bouncing all over the place. And it's beautiful and haunting.
[00:31:19] Speaker A: So Dave did.
[00:31:21] Speaker B: He did write it. Yeah. It really sounds like it's coming from his heart.
[00:31:25] Speaker A: Yeah. And I mean, the one song they wrote, they co wrote together, A Wagging Tongue, which I.
The only thing I don't like about that song is the title. I think it's a throwaway title. I think they should have named it and probably named the album Watch Another Angel Die. I think that would have been jarring.
Confusing.
[00:32:10] Speaker B: Certainly confusing. Yeah.
[00:32:12] Speaker A: It would have peaked a lot of injuries because you really don't know.
[00:32:24] Speaker B: What that means.
[00:32:25] Speaker A: What that means versus Wagging Tongue's pretty.
[00:32:30] Speaker B: Indicative of useless words, you know.
[00:32:36] Speaker A: Like goats. Again, the track after that, which we'll talk about more in depth.
They could have just called the album that. They could have called it a very generic title. Lovers. In the end, I'm glad they didn't sleep. Lids, lullabies. I mean, so many.
If you want to go the lyric route of a song, they have a lot of lyrics.
Lyric, legal lines. They could have.
[00:33:32] Speaker B: But I love Memento Mori.
[00:33:34] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:33:36] Speaker B: The meaning of Everything Must Die sums up their old man mentality on this album. It's like two old dudes just looking back on life and like chicks and religion and.
[00:33:48] Speaker A: Yeah. And let me elaborate. I have absolutely no problem with. With the title Memento Moi. I think it is a beautiful title.
I think.
Whereas they are often sarcastic or tongue in cheek in their album titles or even song titles.
You said in one of the many chats that Memento Moy judge as a album title is their.
Them not being sarcastic at all. I don't know what's wrong with my nose.
Pardon me.
[00:34:52] Speaker B: Do you guys have the winds from the fires coming your way might be itchy.
[00:35:01] Speaker A: I may.
[00:35:02] Speaker B: It's killer up here. Our sky's been orange for days and my eyeballs are like. I want to rip them out of my face. Because Maine is like the least amount of pollutants in the country. And then when the fire air comes over each summer lately, it's like, kill me.
[00:35:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
I mean, getting back the.
To the album proper, it's.
I'm glad they.
Because for second there they were thinking, well, Andy just died.
Should we even go ahead with this album?
And I'm really glad they did.
[00:35:55] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, me too.
[00:35:57] Speaker A: It's exactly what Andy would have wanted them to do. And the album.
Like songs like Ultra.
It's so poignant, those three albums.
Listen to them straight through.
They're all poignant statements of the times they're written in.
And the only question I have about the lyrics or who the hell is Caroline and what is she doing with that monkey? Literally, that's the only song where I'm.
[00:36:57] Speaker B: Like, have you looked it up? Why? Who? What? Who wrote it?
[00:37:02] Speaker A: Martin did.
[00:37:04] Speaker B: Does he know? What? Caroline. Is he gonna tell us?
[00:37:07] Speaker A: I. I doubt it.
[00:37:09] Speaker B: Or maybe it's just a random name.
[00:37:11] Speaker A: But I mean, getting back to.
And vintage.
The Jung people are good.
It's probably the only time we. Where they're blatantly ironic, odd, sarcastic in the album. And why I bring that up is people are people.
It's from Construction Time again. I don't believe.
Yeah. That. That couldn't be on Some Great Reward.
[00:38:02] Speaker B: Yeah, no, it's. It's construction.
It's construction time. Right.
[00:38:08] Speaker A: Yeah. Construction time.
[00:38:12] Speaker B: You double checking as a big Depeche Mode fan, I don't think it's some great reward because Some great reward as master and servant.
[00:38:22] Speaker A: No, actually it is some great sake.
[00:38:29] Speaker B: We don't know what we're talking about.
[00:38:31] Speaker A: Yeah. No, won't.
[00:38:32] Speaker B: It is great. Yeah.
[00:38:35] Speaker A: They write a lot of songs and they do.
[00:38:42] Speaker B: I mean, it's in the 80s they had to slam out the albums due to their contract.
People were like, they. They put an album out every year from 81 through 85. And so it's a little hard to keep up with like, which.
[00:38:56] Speaker A: And I mean whether why I bring up people or People again.
And it very well could have been written during the time. They're also doing Construction Time in between Construction Time and some Great Reward.
But it is.
Yeah. It's the lead off single of their fourth album, Some Great Reward. Why I'm bringing up such a song from their past is that in that album. And that song sounds very much like it could be from either album. It's. It's.
They're growing up and I don't want to see their naivete of people are trying the badge. They can.
[00:40:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:40:22] Speaker A: All in this together.
And People are Good from Memento Moy.
Are them looking back and saying, you can keep thinking that, yeah, people are good, but you're just fooling yourself.
[00:40:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:40:49] Speaker A: And that is, I think, a beautiful look back.
[00:40:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:40:56] Speaker A: At what time and the years of their lives have taught them. And it's probably one of, if not the most, not the only cynical point of the album where their criticism is really in your face, where they're very free in doing that a lot more often through their albums and through their songs.
Whereas this album, they only do it and People are Good.
[00:41:57] Speaker B: I think you're right. That's a great tie in. Is. Is they. You know, even I was rewatching the making of People Are People. The Other day. And they were in Berlin when they made that. And very optimistic. You know, they were very young and optimistic.
And I think you're right. Is now there's a. And they don't even like playing that one anymore, which is such a shame. It's really good.
[00:42:18] Speaker A: But I think it's also Martin's way of updating that.
[00:42:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I think you're right.
[00:42:30] Speaker A: Song.
[00:42:31] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:42:32] Speaker A: It's that.
And I can understand why they don't really like to play it again. I mean, I don't think they like to play Everything Counts from Construction.
[00:42:50] Speaker B: Such a good one. But let's dig out a little bit more religious songs on this album. Or vaguely religious. Are you ready to geek out over your face?
[00:42:58] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
[00:43:00] Speaker B: All right. So ghosts again. Ghosts again. Sorry, there's my speech impediment coming out. Ghosts.
[00:43:07] Speaker A: Oh, really? We have yet another thing in common.
[00:43:13] Speaker B: I. I do. I have a speech impediment. They. The. I forget the technical term for it, but it's the. The nickname.
No, I don't have a. It's lazy tongue, so the muscle doesn't work.
[00:43:27] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:43:28] Speaker B: So th. Ch. Sh.
Z.
Are hard. I have to really work at talking. I had speech therapy as a kid.
[00:43:37] Speaker A: How.
I'm again questioning my.
My inability to know such a important thing about you.
[00:43:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:43:57] Speaker A: We all know why I was distracted in college, and we'd certainly have to bring that up again, but. Goats again.
It's really.
I I what?
[00:44:15] Speaker B: It's phenomenal.
[00:44:16] Speaker A: Yes. And I think it's the cornerstone of the album. And like we've mentioned in every episode, the lead off single on every album is different than the last.
And Wall Martin and Richard Butler, his collaborator, obviously wrote that song before Andy.
Pat.
[00:44:59] Speaker B: The whole album was.
[00:45:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:45:02] Speaker B: The irony. The irony of Andy passing. Because I know there's some rumors online that people like, oh, these songs were created for him. I'm like, no. If they. They explicitly have stated in many interviews and even on the Smart list, when they confirmed the entire album written, Andy never got to hear the demos.
[00:45:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:45:20] Speaker B: So that's the sad, ironic part of it is they have this whole album and they said they were literally two weeks away from recording and were just about to set the demos in the mail to him because he's their keyboardist.
[00:45:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:45:35] Speaker B: And as we know, Andy doesn't write. So for the audience, if they're wondering, Andy never wrote anything.
[00:45:41] Speaker A: No.
[00:45:41] Speaker B: But he.
[00:45:43] Speaker A: And he was.
[00:45:44] Speaker B: He was their biggest fan.
[00:45:46] Speaker A: Fan of the band. And he would.
In the band.
[00:45:56] Speaker B: Yeah. And I. I think what makes Ghosts Again. I'm gonna geek out over it and take over.
First off, it was their first single and I heard it literally the week it came out. I got a notification in my email. It's like, Depression has a new single. I'm like, what the look? So like I turned it on and all I thought was how good it was, how happy it made me. And then I was like, well, what the freak they say they don't like, but not like tonight.
But they made this.
Do they not see the irony? Like Ghosts Again is just like their Happy 80s sound. It's twinkly and bubbly and I was so mad that they would like. There are songs they don't play from the 80s because they feel it makes them too.
Not Depeche Mode. And I'm like, but you made Ghosts Again. Get over yourselves and play. But not like tonight in concert.
But anyway, so I digress. I also think that the video going with it is so perfect. I mean it's just Dave and Martin playing chess.
[00:47:03] Speaker A: Probably.
If you had to pick one video that symbolizes and signifies the band as a whole.
[00:47:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:47:21] Speaker A: And it's totally incompletely married.
Perfectly.
[00:47:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:47:29] Speaker A: Proven songs, Goats.
[00:47:34] Speaker B: It's a sadness that there's only two left. You know, they had one band member ditch.
Well two since, you know, the first. First one on the first album. But then their long term keyboardist Allen, who had replaced Vincent Clark, left feeling unrecognized. And that was tragic. I think he was an awesome.
Led them to their sound. And then, you know, I think Andy going in the video is so sweet and the song is so sweet of. Again, this.
There's nobody in particular this singing about it definitely is just about friendship or relationships in general. It's just we'll be ghosts Again. And there's this sweetness to faith is, you know, fleeting and it's, you know. And there's thoughtless thoughts and. Or faith is dreaming. Is that what he says? And there's thoughtless thoughts, my friend. Well, no, we'll be ghosts Again. And there's this beautiful meaning to.
Almost like an implication of reincarnation or that death is a cycle. You know, life is a cycle. And there's this bizarreness that Depeche Mode's always been able to do is happy lyrics to like sad lyrics to happy sounding music.
[00:48:46] Speaker A: And yeah, the courage of the song is.
[00:48:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Believe it or not, I don't always look up lyrics I can't hear because sometimes I just enjoy the feel of the song.
[00:49:01] Speaker A: You know, this song is so poignant that there's only they do two called Sids Faith is sleeping Lovers in the inn Will be ghosts again Heaven's dreaming Thoughts my friends we know Will be.
[00:49:37] Speaker B: Ghost again and this again is Dave when he sings his sweet baritone voice. This is young. I felt like when I heard this song I felt like I was hearing young Dave again. I felt like a little kid. I was like, how did they reverse his voice to sound like he's like 30 years old again?
And it. I think he just enjoyed recording it. I think a youthful side of him came out. I don't think they had to edit it so deeply. I think it's just.
[00:50:10] Speaker A: Yeah, both of them. Them really enjoyed recording that song. Martin said in a interview about the album and about the song that it was finally a single that they recorded that he could stand to listen to and not get tired of.
[00:50:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:50:45] Speaker A: Which sheds a lot. I mean I will mark so the background the song marks the Verge single relates sends the depth of co founder and keyboarded andy Fletcher in May 2022 today Dan. The song captured this perfect balance of melancholy and joy, while Margin Gore added that the song has such an upbeat feel to it and how rare it is for the band to record a song that quote, I just don't get sick of listening to now. I never thought that Martin or Dave were listening to their albums at home with their families. I never thought that. Particularly Martin.
I mean it's like not something they would do.
[00:52:09] Speaker B: I mean it's cute to think about. Yeah.
[00:52:12] Speaker A: Yeah. It's really funny. Like an alternate timeline.
They're jamming out to their own albums at home or judging about. About their albums to their families.
[00:52:32] Speaker B: I think you and I were talking about it or I'd read somewhere that Dave played Ghosts again for his daughter and be like, it's catchy. Right? Was like playing the demo and he said he just kept playing it over and over again, listening to his voice and music and his daughter's like, it's okay. And he's like, well whatever. I like it. And he's like, I just kept playing it. I thought it was like the best song we'd ever created. They really like Ghosts Again.
[00:52:55] Speaker A: Yeah. And I mean it shows. But like in Wagging Tongue, the only proper album track that they've co wrote together.
Their harmonies are so on point and it's like.
And their entire mindset and their entire vocal registry throughout this entire album. It's so on point. I mean from my God's mo, my My cosmos It's mine.
There's my Speech impediment.
Yay.
To speak yet.
Oh, that. That's adorable.
That would be adorable.
To Chair.
To Speak To Me, which is a Dave track.
And it's both eerie, haunting, but also incredibly, incredibly sensual in the music.
[00:54:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
And I want to get to Speak To Me.
I know we're running out of time.
Can I squeeze in Soul With Me? And then we both end on Speak With Me because, like, my producer is.
[00:54:48] Speaker A: Not going to call me this time.
[00:54:51] Speaker B: But I think we should say Speak for Me. Speak With Me to end this. Right. Because it's the end. And if they never record again, that's the last one.
[00:54:59] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's very apt. I mean. Yeah. Let's talk about Soul with.
[00:55:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Because I want to get to Speak To Me what it deserves.
We can burst through Soul With Me really quick. So Soul With Me is a Martin song.
He doesn't have any others on this album. That's a rarity.
[00:55:20] Speaker A: Martin, that he rides by himself.
[00:55:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:55:27] Speaker A: Usually he writes his songs.
[00:55:36] Speaker B: He typically gets like 2 to 3 on each album.
[00:55:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:55:39] Speaker B: And this time he took a back seat and did only background vocals. And this is his only solo song on the album.
And I think so With Me is directly religious.
It's about facing death. And he just says, I'm heading for the ever after. And I mean, literally, there's. I don't need to even describe more lyrics than that other than he's like, I'm heading for the ever after. And then he sends. And I'm taking my soul with me.
And it's this very interesting way to say, you're dying. Right. But I'm also taking my soul. I'm not leaving it behind. You know, it comes with. And I've never really thought too hard about the meaning other than that. But there. I really hated the song when it started out. Much like Macro, we went over that one on Ain't Playing the Angel. And now I've listened to Macro on repeat all week because let's just talk about how fire that chorus is. And so I really think Soul With Me is the same frickin thing. Is it like psychs you out. It's like kind of lame when it starts and then it hits this like, chorus that you're like in your head, like, explodes. And so I think everybody, if they're ready to go down the weird part of Depeche Mode, like the weirdest of weird.
So With Me nails it again. I think it was perfect for this album. I think it's a perfect Martin song. I wouldn't want it any other way.
I just think people have to listen to it because when they put Martin's voice on reverb, it's like nothing you've ever heard before. And they do that on a few albums. But this one is like.
I literally picture his soul doing this spreading out like into a thousand men on the chorus. Because like.
And it's like all this like.
Like his voice is just echoing. Take my soul, Soul.
And I just like when he's with the me, like, it's like he normally doesn't go deep. But I think. And I almost wonder if Dave's voice is mixed in with that because it's so like.
Yeah, it's incredible. So anyway, let's go to Speak with Me. Viewers have to listen to soul with me. It grows on you give it to listens through because it's. The first time doesn't hit the same way it hits on the second time.
[00:57:48] Speaker A: All of the songs really grow on you. Like I said in one of the. The previous discussions, I listened to Delta Machine, Spirit and Memento Mori each once and then I put them away. So I can understand how fans of the band, particularly their earlier rock, which is substantial.
Their last three albums, this is a very different band. And even when you get into songs of Sounds of the Universe where they explore the Gods modes probably to the nth degree.
[00:58:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:59:02] Speaker A: Those albums from Sounds to Madam Mari are a very different band. And then the albums before.
And so I can understand why fans. And I've watched some fans tear those albums to threads.
Comic relief.
[00:59:40] Speaker B: Which is weird because Spirit apparently was one of their best selling tours. Did you know that yet?
[00:59:46] Speaker A: No, I knew that.
[00:59:47] Speaker B: I mean Spirit's not a bad album. It's just not. It does. It's not their top. I.
[00:59:52] Speaker A: No, no.
I mean the lads, three or four albums, they've taken more reflective.
An inexpective view of the world and particularly on Mentor Moi, that they're heading towards not only their golden years but also to the end.
Yeah, it's. It's unmistakable with a album titled such as Memento Moi, which for anyone who doesn't know it's Latin for remember you will die.
Which is probably the most perfect album title for a collection of songs that really explore the.
[01:01:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Also for a band that is of the topics. Also for a band that has been extraordinarily vulnerable and weird and sexy since the. The beginning. You know what I mean? Like if we're hearkening back to Black Celebration, which they feel is Truly their awakening. You know they're like construction time. And some great reward were great. We were finding ourselves. But they really say Black Celebration set that like ah, this is who we are.
[01:01:40] Speaker A: Oh yeah. And you can so you can totally hear that when you legend to that album. True. And don't skip a track.
[01:01:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:01:56] Speaker A: And you know what comes after that album? It was that album.
[01:02:05] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:02:05] Speaker A: That really nail where they threw everything at the wall. Everything really owned everything.
[01:02:16] Speaker B: It goes from singing.
You want your mind blown. My mind just got blown the other day. Question of time I found out is apparently which explains why Anton Corbin had them holding a baby in the video is about a child eventually becoming a woman.
[01:02:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:02:36] Speaker B: And that a man will eventually get with her. And I was like yeah, that's fucking weird. I never thought of this song that way. I always wondered what was up with the baby in the video clock in the background. I was like what the hell? Why are these young 24 year olds holding babies?
I mean naive me whatever.
[01:02:54] Speaker A: So my mind was not blown. Could I would.
[01:03:01] Speaker B: Because you knew that.
[01:03:04] Speaker A: I mean. Well, I mean when. When you hulk him back to the three topics that Martin has famously said he writes about relationships, particularly sex, politics and religion and what else is there. And write about.
[01:03:33] Speaker B: Yeah. And that album hits it all. So it's like you're rushing with question of time. Stripped is my favorite. Literally like next to it's Enjoy the silence. And then Stripped and Stripped is the bomb on that album. Vulnerable. They want literally are like stripped down to the bone. I want to know you right down at the bone. Then they go to like a song about Princess Diana, you know, as a political metaphor for the experience of women and the media and like all these things to Here is the house which is an observation of memories of a sweet childhood and comfort. And they like you said like literally through everything. And I really think this is a full circle with Memento Mori is we get to all the culmination of their lives. Ultra Songs of faith. And like we were talking about that that it's like Black celebration.
Songs of faith and devotion. Ultra I think lead you up to Memento Mori.
[01:04:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:04:27] Speaker B: You know what I mean? And get you to this point of like this full circle. And we end with Speak with me which is about death. It's just accept literally like Martin's song is still with me. But then you get to the end with Dave and he's literally not asking or saying I'm seeing it coming. It's like he's there, he's in. He's in the ever after and he's. He's.
He's already. You can see cross the bridge and he's just floating up to where he's supposed to go. And they even the song is using those weird so space sounds and this like str. I don't know if you've seen the movie the show Loki but yeah. Yeah. If you haven't just listen to the soundtrack. It literally sounds just like that. It's like that weird like 50s woo. You know like weird woo sounds.
[01:05:17] Speaker A: And it's the. The large lyrics of the album and all lead them because yeah.
So beautiful. And by lads lyrics I literally mean the lads that of the entire song which for some reason I can't really find very easily which is annoying. Hold on, I'm getting them.
[01:05:59] Speaker B: Does he sing? I will disappoint you I will let.
[01:06:02] Speaker A: You down so I will disappoint you I will let you down I need to know you're here with me Turn it all around Be grateful I'll follow you around I'm listening I'm here now I'm found and then the instrumental outro does that woo woo sound but it also harkens back to the intro of.
[01:06:44] Speaker B: My Kaj My Y also an intensely weird song that people need to give a deep dive to.
[01:06:52] Speaker A: Yeah. And I mean it's such a master stroke of a album where it's.
It definitely demands to be listened to and religioned to. Like the. The.
The third time I really gave it it's due which was the second time I listened to it. I immediately listened to it again.
It should felt like that was the right thing to do. The thing the band themselves expected the listener to do after they hit the final few instrumental moments of. Of the final track.
Because it goes directly back to the opening of My God's Modes is Mine and that is just a poignant way to end the album where ads all good judges brilliantly with preach state the bottom line and insight.
[01:08:40] Speaker B: I love the bottom line.
[01:08:42] Speaker A: Yeah. And we'll talk about it more in the next series. We do which will discussion just a moment but getting back to my my all time favorite song on some great reward you talk we've talked about their biting sarcasm and somebody is a passionate love song until the final.
The final line of the song and we'll not talk about the final line to hook people to the next series. But the reason why I go back to somebody is that the bottom line seems like he's found what he was looking for.
[01:10:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:10:01] Speaker A: In the earlier song but years later and in the made up continually of my mind, it's.
[01:10:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I think. I think you're right. Martin's told the story all these years. If you played songs in order, they're all at his different age and perspective and what he's found. And I think even somebody can be compared to even speak with me as they.
Again. That this album is really an acceptance album.
[01:10:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:10:41] Speaker B: Of just like this is life. You know, I mean, like, so there's. Even the sarcastic song is just pointing that out. Right. Yeah. Just a sarcastic way of like, this is a reality. I'll just keep telling myself people are good. And I. I think somebody is poignant to kind of the darkness, the way they see things so darkly.
And we'll definitely go into that one more on the next series without giving away the final lyric. And. Yeah, I just think I can't say enough good things about Memento Mori. I did have to give it two listens. I would definitely tell any audience member, you've got to give them a couple listens. But if they were to continue. I want a dance album. I want strictly an album with headbangers on it. Otherwise, I don't want to hear anything else from them because I. I really think there's no way to top the depth of this album. So I feel like if you're gonna keep going. I don't want depth. I just want, like, enjoy the silence on Repeat and soothe my soul. And I feel loved. I just want bangers like Left and Right. Because this album's ability to transcend as we're talking about their entire career.
[01:11:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:11:50] Speaker B: And still find a new sound.
[01:11:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:11:54] Speaker B: Without losing themselves is.
I don't think any other bands really achieve that. I mean, I haven't given a deep dive to the Rolling Stones, who are pretty much one of the only other, you know, solid bands out there that have stuck together and made music. Not touring.
Yeah. I'm not talking about the touring bands right there. I've seen some of the touring bands like REO Speedwagon. There's not a lot of new music as. I mean, there probably is, but, like, they just play the same hits over and over.
I'm talking a band that gets up and does a concert like Depechema did and does a whole new album. You know what I mean? At the concert. And my. The only Shame to the Memento Mori tour there was my cosmos's mind didn't translate well at the arena I was at. I don't know how it sounded anywhere else, but it sounded like noise. It was like, oh, I hope the rest of the concert's not like this. And then it leveled out, so I'm like, that's not a good live song. But on record it is.
[01:12:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:12:53] Speaker B: You just got to give.
Speak to Me is just brilliant.
[01:12:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
My God. Modes, it's mine. It's definitely the perfect opener to Memento Morning Judge. Like, Speak to Me. It's the perfect closure. And not because they loop each other like Book is, but it's like, again, in terms of concept albums, like I Feel you and Higher Love.
[01:13:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:13:37] Speaker A: On songs of faith and devotion, if you just watch those two songs and then the two songs we just talked about.
[01:13:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:13:52] Speaker A: When they really want to be reflective, be sensitive, bulgy, but unique.
Yeah, they can be.
And so we're at the end of this miniseries, but don't worry.
Just like, we can't get enough.
The jokes ride themselves, people.
Since we've had such a fun time, looking at the overall musicality of the Patch mode through a spiritual lens. And again, I got this idea from listening to Ultra one too many times.
[01:15:04] Speaker B: Freaking amazing album, people.
[01:15:07] Speaker A: I want to hawk him back on the next series, which will be appropriately called the Patch Love and Devotion, where we take a look at their songs and the musicality through love and relationships.
And so that's going to come out next month, or we're going to record it next month some time. Maybe this month, but so you see inheritance here from us. Again, I want to thank Elena Mallet for so many things, but most importantly, this wonderful band, which I.
I still can imagine me finding without your persistence and your tenacity.
I don't know what motivated you to share this band with me. We were both very different people then.
But as I said on the Verge interview we did together with.
Whenever I listened to this band, I thought of you and I wished you well.
I said a prayer for my incredible friend who introduced me to one of the most brilliant musical acts that I have ever legend to. And so thank you again, my friend.
[01:17:22] Speaker B: Well, thank you. I don't even know what to say to that, but thank you. Thanks.
[01:17:27] Speaker A: I'll see you soon.
[01:17:29] Speaker B: I will see you soon. I don't have any puns. I'm sorry.
[01:17:41] Speaker A: You have been listening to Disability Empowerment Now. I would like to thank my dads.
You are listener and the Disability Empowerment team that made this episode possible.
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